Using et al. for a last / senior author rather than for a first author Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Is it ethical for an author to cite their own work with themselves as first author when they are not first author?Does anyone have rate the relative quality of scientific papers, rather than authors?When should cited author names be included in the substantive, rather than parenthetical, part of a citing sentence?How do you respond when people talk about the possibility of profiting from, rather than the exciement of, your research?APA subsequant citation for two different studies with same first author and same yearHow to suggest merging papers with a more senior author?Using first name only for university email aliasCan an author refer to work they did jointly using the first person?How to connect distant with senior colleagues in their last PhD year?Letting another author know I'm using one of their results

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Using et al. for a last / senior author rather than for a first author



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Is it ethical for an author to cite their own work with themselves as first author when they are not first author?Does anyone have rate the relative quality of scientific papers, rather than authors?When should cited author names be included in the substantive, rather than parenthetical, part of a citing sentence?How do you respond when people talk about the possibility of profiting from, rather than the exciement of, your research?APA subsequant citation for two different studies with same first author and same yearHow to suggest merging papers with a more senior author?Using first name only for university email aliasCan an author refer to work they did jointly using the first person?How to connect distant with senior colleagues in their last PhD year?Letting another author know I'm using one of their results










1















Suppose a paper has authors A, B, C, and D. The first author, A, isn't in academia anymore, and much of my work is inspired by the senior author, D. I've also only communicated with author D.



Can I say/write "author D et al."?



When I looked this up, "first author et al." is the recommended version, but I would rather prefer to say "author D et al."



This isn't for a formal paper submission, but rather for something like a blog post describing my recent findings, which I hope will be published in the near future.










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  • 4





    Please edit to use typical English capitalization and punctuation.

    – Azor Ahai
    6 hours ago












  • @AzorAhai k thnx i'll do that in a bit. how do u edit, btw? i dunno how to do it. plz tell me, k thnx

    – user106769
    6 hours ago











  • You've already edited to change the title. It's the same button.

    – Azor Ahai
    6 hours ago















1















Suppose a paper has authors A, B, C, and D. The first author, A, isn't in academia anymore, and much of my work is inspired by the senior author, D. I've also only communicated with author D.



Can I say/write "author D et al."?



When I looked this up, "first author et al." is the recommended version, but I would rather prefer to say "author D et al."



This isn't for a formal paper submission, but rather for something like a blog post describing my recent findings, which I hope will be published in the near future.










share|improve this question









New contributor




user106769 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.















  • 4





    Please edit to use typical English capitalization and punctuation.

    – Azor Ahai
    6 hours ago












  • @AzorAhai k thnx i'll do that in a bit. how do u edit, btw? i dunno how to do it. plz tell me, k thnx

    – user106769
    6 hours ago











  • You've already edited to change the title. It's the same button.

    – Azor Ahai
    6 hours ago













1












1








1








Suppose a paper has authors A, B, C, and D. The first author, A, isn't in academia anymore, and much of my work is inspired by the senior author, D. I've also only communicated with author D.



Can I say/write "author D et al."?



When I looked this up, "first author et al." is the recommended version, but I would rather prefer to say "author D et al."



This isn't for a formal paper submission, but rather for something like a blog post describing my recent findings, which I hope will be published in the near future.










share|improve this question









New contributor




user106769 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












Suppose a paper has authors A, B, C, and D. The first author, A, isn't in academia anymore, and much of my work is inspired by the senior author, D. I've also only communicated with author D.



Can I say/write "author D et al."?



When I looked this up, "first author et al." is the recommended version, but I would rather prefer to say "author D et al."



This isn't for a formal paper submission, but rather for something like a blog post describing my recent findings, which I hope will be published in the near future.







citations etiquette






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share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 hours ago









Anyon

8,65023345




8,65023345






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asked 6 hours ago









user106769user106769

16325




16325




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  • 4





    Please edit to use typical English capitalization and punctuation.

    – Azor Ahai
    6 hours ago












  • @AzorAhai k thnx i'll do that in a bit. how do u edit, btw? i dunno how to do it. plz tell me, k thnx

    – user106769
    6 hours ago











  • You've already edited to change the title. It's the same button.

    – Azor Ahai
    6 hours ago












  • 4





    Please edit to use typical English capitalization and punctuation.

    – Azor Ahai
    6 hours ago












  • @AzorAhai k thnx i'll do that in a bit. how do u edit, btw? i dunno how to do it. plz tell me, k thnx

    – user106769
    6 hours ago











  • You've already edited to change the title. It's the same button.

    – Azor Ahai
    6 hours ago







4




4





Please edit to use typical English capitalization and punctuation.

– Azor Ahai
6 hours ago






Please edit to use typical English capitalization and punctuation.

– Azor Ahai
6 hours ago














@AzorAhai k thnx i'll do that in a bit. how do u edit, btw? i dunno how to do it. plz tell me, k thnx

– user106769
6 hours ago





@AzorAhai k thnx i'll do that in a bit. how do u edit, btw? i dunno how to do it. plz tell me, k thnx

– user106769
6 hours ago













You've already edited to change the title. It's the same button.

– Azor Ahai
6 hours ago





You've already edited to change the title. It's the same button.

– Azor Ahai
6 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















9














Your feelings and the journal citation rules might not align the way you want them to be. Therefore, I suggest you stick with the accepted norms and go with author a et al., even if it is an informal conversation or blog.



Using any author other than the first author in citation would not only do injustice to that author, but would also be a disservice to the readers. Readers would probably be confused when trying to find the bibliography of that citation in the reference list.






share|improve this answer










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  • 2





    I've informally run into trouble doing something analogous - with no ill intent - so yes, proper citation is the right way to go.

    – kcrisman
    1 hour ago











  • Agree that one should stick to citation conventions. One can, however, often simply insert phrasing around the citations that give credit to the senior team member, which is often more meaningful to the audience in the field. For example: "Work in this area was pioneered by Jean Smith in Tokyo (e.g. Jones et al., 2000; Brown et al., 2005)." Edit: actually just saw that the answer by @LarrySnyder610 below says much the same thing.

    – Michael MacAskill
    35 mins ago



















5














I think in an informal medium like a blog post, you could convey that author D is the main character in the “story” you are trying to tell while still maintaining proper citation standards by saying something like, “Author D and his/her colleagues (Author A, et al., 2018) have shown that...”






share|improve this answer








New contributor




LarrySnyder610 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • This is a great approach. One should stick closely to the conventions of referencing, but that doesn't mean that the surrounding prose has to be machine-like and ignore the level of contributions of the authors. We are indeed telling stories, and the references are just there to support that. I'd only suggest that this isn't limited to blog posts. There is no reason why this can't be done in formal journal articles and thesis writing (and indeed, it often is).

    – Michael MacAskill
    30 mins ago












  • I often use this phrasing in the context of a talk, though I don't know if I've ever written it out. Refer to work in "the lab of Author D" and then point to citations with other first authors...makes a lot of sense in a field where the senior author is the one that is consistent and can unify a collection of related work.

    – Bryan Krause
    23 mins ago











  • @BryanKrause I have just written such text in a grant application where I was trying to convey both the key result and the fact that the research team also includes the person who knows the magic to reproduce the key result.

    – StrongBad
    21 mins ago


















0














It just isn't that much work to name everyone. Think of all the work all the authors put into that paper. We can all afford to spend one extra second reading all of their names. And that extra second might make someone recognize the name on a file and result in someone getting a job they otherwise wouldn't have. There's no justification for using "et. al."






share|improve this answer























  • Says a mathematician were the typical style is [1] and no names.

    – StrongBad
    19 mins ago











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3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes








3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









9














Your feelings and the journal citation rules might not align the way you want them to be. Therefore, I suggest you stick with the accepted norms and go with author a et al., even if it is an informal conversation or blog.



Using any author other than the first author in citation would not only do injustice to that author, but would also be a disservice to the readers. Readers would probably be confused when trying to find the bibliography of that citation in the reference list.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




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  • 2





    I've informally run into trouble doing something analogous - with no ill intent - so yes, proper citation is the right way to go.

    – kcrisman
    1 hour ago











  • Agree that one should stick to citation conventions. One can, however, often simply insert phrasing around the citations that give credit to the senior team member, which is often more meaningful to the audience in the field. For example: "Work in this area was pioneered by Jean Smith in Tokyo (e.g. Jones et al., 2000; Brown et al., 2005)." Edit: actually just saw that the answer by @LarrySnyder610 below says much the same thing.

    – Michael MacAskill
    35 mins ago
















9














Your feelings and the journal citation rules might not align the way you want them to be. Therefore, I suggest you stick with the accepted norms and go with author a et al., even if it is an informal conversation or blog.



Using any author other than the first author in citation would not only do injustice to that author, but would also be a disservice to the readers. Readers would probably be confused when trying to find the bibliography of that citation in the reference list.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




nsinghs is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.















  • 2





    I've informally run into trouble doing something analogous - with no ill intent - so yes, proper citation is the right way to go.

    – kcrisman
    1 hour ago











  • Agree that one should stick to citation conventions. One can, however, often simply insert phrasing around the citations that give credit to the senior team member, which is often more meaningful to the audience in the field. For example: "Work in this area was pioneered by Jean Smith in Tokyo (e.g. Jones et al., 2000; Brown et al., 2005)." Edit: actually just saw that the answer by @LarrySnyder610 below says much the same thing.

    – Michael MacAskill
    35 mins ago














9












9








9







Your feelings and the journal citation rules might not align the way you want them to be. Therefore, I suggest you stick with the accepted norms and go with author a et al., even if it is an informal conversation or blog.



Using any author other than the first author in citation would not only do injustice to that author, but would also be a disservice to the readers. Readers would probably be confused when trying to find the bibliography of that citation in the reference list.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




nsinghs is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










Your feelings and the journal citation rules might not align the way you want them to be. Therefore, I suggest you stick with the accepted norms and go with author a et al., even if it is an informal conversation or blog.



Using any author other than the first author in citation would not only do injustice to that author, but would also be a disservice to the readers. Readers would probably be confused when trying to find the bibliography of that citation in the reference list.







share|improve this answer










New contributor




nsinghs is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 6 hours ago





















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answered 6 hours ago









nsinghsnsinghs

5695




5695




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nsinghs is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • 2





    I've informally run into trouble doing something analogous - with no ill intent - so yes, proper citation is the right way to go.

    – kcrisman
    1 hour ago











  • Agree that one should stick to citation conventions. One can, however, often simply insert phrasing around the citations that give credit to the senior team member, which is often more meaningful to the audience in the field. For example: "Work in this area was pioneered by Jean Smith in Tokyo (e.g. Jones et al., 2000; Brown et al., 2005)." Edit: actually just saw that the answer by @LarrySnyder610 below says much the same thing.

    – Michael MacAskill
    35 mins ago













  • 2





    I've informally run into trouble doing something analogous - with no ill intent - so yes, proper citation is the right way to go.

    – kcrisman
    1 hour ago











  • Agree that one should stick to citation conventions. One can, however, often simply insert phrasing around the citations that give credit to the senior team member, which is often more meaningful to the audience in the field. For example: "Work in this area was pioneered by Jean Smith in Tokyo (e.g. Jones et al., 2000; Brown et al., 2005)." Edit: actually just saw that the answer by @LarrySnyder610 below says much the same thing.

    – Michael MacAskill
    35 mins ago








2




2





I've informally run into trouble doing something analogous - with no ill intent - so yes, proper citation is the right way to go.

– kcrisman
1 hour ago





I've informally run into trouble doing something analogous - with no ill intent - so yes, proper citation is the right way to go.

– kcrisman
1 hour ago













Agree that one should stick to citation conventions. One can, however, often simply insert phrasing around the citations that give credit to the senior team member, which is often more meaningful to the audience in the field. For example: "Work in this area was pioneered by Jean Smith in Tokyo (e.g. Jones et al., 2000; Brown et al., 2005)." Edit: actually just saw that the answer by @LarrySnyder610 below says much the same thing.

– Michael MacAskill
35 mins ago






Agree that one should stick to citation conventions. One can, however, often simply insert phrasing around the citations that give credit to the senior team member, which is often more meaningful to the audience in the field. For example: "Work in this area was pioneered by Jean Smith in Tokyo (e.g. Jones et al., 2000; Brown et al., 2005)." Edit: actually just saw that the answer by @LarrySnyder610 below says much the same thing.

– Michael MacAskill
35 mins ago












5














I think in an informal medium like a blog post, you could convey that author D is the main character in the “story” you are trying to tell while still maintaining proper citation standards by saying something like, “Author D and his/her colleagues (Author A, et al., 2018) have shown that...”






share|improve this answer








New contributor




LarrySnyder610 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • This is a great approach. One should stick closely to the conventions of referencing, but that doesn't mean that the surrounding prose has to be machine-like and ignore the level of contributions of the authors. We are indeed telling stories, and the references are just there to support that. I'd only suggest that this isn't limited to blog posts. There is no reason why this can't be done in formal journal articles and thesis writing (and indeed, it often is).

    – Michael MacAskill
    30 mins ago












  • I often use this phrasing in the context of a talk, though I don't know if I've ever written it out. Refer to work in "the lab of Author D" and then point to citations with other first authors...makes a lot of sense in a field where the senior author is the one that is consistent and can unify a collection of related work.

    – Bryan Krause
    23 mins ago











  • @BryanKrause I have just written such text in a grant application where I was trying to convey both the key result and the fact that the research team also includes the person who knows the magic to reproduce the key result.

    – StrongBad
    21 mins ago















5














I think in an informal medium like a blog post, you could convey that author D is the main character in the “story” you are trying to tell while still maintaining proper citation standards by saying something like, “Author D and his/her colleagues (Author A, et al., 2018) have shown that...”






share|improve this answer








New contributor




LarrySnyder610 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • This is a great approach. One should stick closely to the conventions of referencing, but that doesn't mean that the surrounding prose has to be machine-like and ignore the level of contributions of the authors. We are indeed telling stories, and the references are just there to support that. I'd only suggest that this isn't limited to blog posts. There is no reason why this can't be done in formal journal articles and thesis writing (and indeed, it often is).

    – Michael MacAskill
    30 mins ago












  • I often use this phrasing in the context of a talk, though I don't know if I've ever written it out. Refer to work in "the lab of Author D" and then point to citations with other first authors...makes a lot of sense in a field where the senior author is the one that is consistent and can unify a collection of related work.

    – Bryan Krause
    23 mins ago











  • @BryanKrause I have just written such text in a grant application where I was trying to convey both the key result and the fact that the research team also includes the person who knows the magic to reproduce the key result.

    – StrongBad
    21 mins ago













5












5








5







I think in an informal medium like a blog post, you could convey that author D is the main character in the “story” you are trying to tell while still maintaining proper citation standards by saying something like, “Author D and his/her colleagues (Author A, et al., 2018) have shown that...”






share|improve this answer








New contributor




LarrySnyder610 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










I think in an informal medium like a blog post, you could convey that author D is the main character in the “story” you are trying to tell while still maintaining proper citation standards by saying something like, “Author D and his/her colleagues (Author A, et al., 2018) have shown that...”







share|improve this answer








New contributor




LarrySnyder610 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer






New contributor




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answered 1 hour ago









LarrySnyder610LarrySnyder610

2714




2714




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New contributor





LarrySnyder610 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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LarrySnyder610 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • This is a great approach. One should stick closely to the conventions of referencing, but that doesn't mean that the surrounding prose has to be machine-like and ignore the level of contributions of the authors. We are indeed telling stories, and the references are just there to support that. I'd only suggest that this isn't limited to blog posts. There is no reason why this can't be done in formal journal articles and thesis writing (and indeed, it often is).

    – Michael MacAskill
    30 mins ago












  • I often use this phrasing in the context of a talk, though I don't know if I've ever written it out. Refer to work in "the lab of Author D" and then point to citations with other first authors...makes a lot of sense in a field where the senior author is the one that is consistent and can unify a collection of related work.

    – Bryan Krause
    23 mins ago











  • @BryanKrause I have just written such text in a grant application where I was trying to convey both the key result and the fact that the research team also includes the person who knows the magic to reproduce the key result.

    – StrongBad
    21 mins ago

















  • This is a great approach. One should stick closely to the conventions of referencing, but that doesn't mean that the surrounding prose has to be machine-like and ignore the level of contributions of the authors. We are indeed telling stories, and the references are just there to support that. I'd only suggest that this isn't limited to blog posts. There is no reason why this can't be done in formal journal articles and thesis writing (and indeed, it often is).

    – Michael MacAskill
    30 mins ago












  • I often use this phrasing in the context of a talk, though I don't know if I've ever written it out. Refer to work in "the lab of Author D" and then point to citations with other first authors...makes a lot of sense in a field where the senior author is the one that is consistent and can unify a collection of related work.

    – Bryan Krause
    23 mins ago











  • @BryanKrause I have just written such text in a grant application where I was trying to convey both the key result and the fact that the research team also includes the person who knows the magic to reproduce the key result.

    – StrongBad
    21 mins ago
















This is a great approach. One should stick closely to the conventions of referencing, but that doesn't mean that the surrounding prose has to be machine-like and ignore the level of contributions of the authors. We are indeed telling stories, and the references are just there to support that. I'd only suggest that this isn't limited to blog posts. There is no reason why this can't be done in formal journal articles and thesis writing (and indeed, it often is).

– Michael MacAskill
30 mins ago






This is a great approach. One should stick closely to the conventions of referencing, but that doesn't mean that the surrounding prose has to be machine-like and ignore the level of contributions of the authors. We are indeed telling stories, and the references are just there to support that. I'd only suggest that this isn't limited to blog posts. There is no reason why this can't be done in formal journal articles and thesis writing (and indeed, it often is).

– Michael MacAskill
30 mins ago














I often use this phrasing in the context of a talk, though I don't know if I've ever written it out. Refer to work in "the lab of Author D" and then point to citations with other first authors...makes a lot of sense in a field where the senior author is the one that is consistent and can unify a collection of related work.

– Bryan Krause
23 mins ago





I often use this phrasing in the context of a talk, though I don't know if I've ever written it out. Refer to work in "the lab of Author D" and then point to citations with other first authors...makes a lot of sense in a field where the senior author is the one that is consistent and can unify a collection of related work.

– Bryan Krause
23 mins ago













@BryanKrause I have just written such text in a grant application where I was trying to convey both the key result and the fact that the research team also includes the person who knows the magic to reproduce the key result.

– StrongBad
21 mins ago





@BryanKrause I have just written such text in a grant application where I was trying to convey both the key result and the fact that the research team also includes the person who knows the magic to reproduce the key result.

– StrongBad
21 mins ago











0














It just isn't that much work to name everyone. Think of all the work all the authors put into that paper. We can all afford to spend one extra second reading all of their names. And that extra second might make someone recognize the name on a file and result in someone getting a job they otherwise wouldn't have. There's no justification for using "et. al."






share|improve this answer























  • Says a mathematician were the typical style is [1] and no names.

    – StrongBad
    19 mins ago















0














It just isn't that much work to name everyone. Think of all the work all the authors put into that paper. We can all afford to spend one extra second reading all of their names. And that extra second might make someone recognize the name on a file and result in someone getting a job they otherwise wouldn't have. There's no justification for using "et. al."






share|improve this answer























  • Says a mathematician were the typical style is [1] and no names.

    – StrongBad
    19 mins ago













0












0








0







It just isn't that much work to name everyone. Think of all the work all the authors put into that paper. We can all afford to spend one extra second reading all of their names. And that extra second might make someone recognize the name on a file and result in someone getting a job they otherwise wouldn't have. There's no justification for using "et. al."






share|improve this answer













It just isn't that much work to name everyone. Think of all the work all the authors put into that paper. We can all afford to spend one extra second reading all of their names. And that extra second might make someone recognize the name on a file and result in someone getting a job they otherwise wouldn't have. There's no justification for using "et. al."







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 22 mins ago









Noah SnyderNoah Snyder

14.9k13470




14.9k13470












  • Says a mathematician were the typical style is [1] and no names.

    – StrongBad
    19 mins ago

















  • Says a mathematician were the typical style is [1] and no names.

    – StrongBad
    19 mins ago
















Says a mathematician were the typical style is [1] and no names.

– StrongBad
19 mins ago





Says a mathematician were the typical style is [1] and no names.

– StrongBad
19 mins ago










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