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How to safely derail a train during transit?
Mass transit across the solar systemPossibility of transferring power to train through railsAn infinite train circling the planet that never stopsPreferred method of mass transit inside an arcology?Train-World: The shatterpated machinations of Spoorcaneers - Tossing & TurningHow could Giants sit in public transit?Making airshipsblimpsdirigibles the dominant form of air transportPublic Transit for MerfolkIs a coral-based planet possible?Victorian long-distance express transport?
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Imagine a single, long, straight stretch of track. On the track there is a train heading in one direction at 100 km/h and a second train heading towards it at 200 km/h. The latter train is a special priority train that should not slow down at any cost.
Edit: Let us assume the trains are 75 km apart, resulting in 15 minutes until a full-on collision if no action is taken. Answers needn't adhere to this guideline.
How do I prevent the former train from slowing down the latter without causing major damage to the former train?
Answers adjusting the infrastructure or train construction before the encounter are acceptable, so long as there are no fixed bypasses or signals.
Reasons why such a long, single track may exist could, for example, be:
- The line is temporary or new and only a single track has been completed.
- There are spacial limitations such as the line running through a narrow valley/ravine
- There are structural limitations such as the surrounding ground being highly expensive to stabilise sufficiently
- There are political or cultural limitations such as funding cuts, building permissions, heritage bridges/tunnels or surrounding nature reserves
physics engineering transportation infrastructure
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show 8 more comments
$begingroup$
Imagine a single, long, straight stretch of track. On the track there is a train heading in one direction at 100 km/h and a second train heading towards it at 200 km/h. The latter train is a special priority train that should not slow down at any cost.
Edit: Let us assume the trains are 75 km apart, resulting in 15 minutes until a full-on collision if no action is taken. Answers needn't adhere to this guideline.
How do I prevent the former train from slowing down the latter without causing major damage to the former train?
Answers adjusting the infrastructure or train construction before the encounter are acceptable, so long as there are no fixed bypasses or signals.
Reasons why such a long, single track may exist could, for example, be:
- The line is temporary or new and only a single track has been completed.
- There are spacial limitations such as the line running through a narrow valley/ravine
- There are structural limitations such as the surrounding ground being highly expensive to stabilise sufficiently
- There are political or cultural limitations such as funding cuts, building permissions, heritage bridges/tunnels or surrounding nature reserves
physics engineering transportation infrastructure
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2
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"Although accidental derailment is damaging to equipment and track, and requires considerable time and expense to remedy, derails are used in situations where there is a risk of greater damage to equipment, injury or death if equipment is allowed to proceed past the derail point." (A "derail" or "derailer" is a device used to prevent fouling -- blocking or compromising -- of a rail track, or to avoid collisions with anything present on the track; it works by derailing equipment passing over it.) I don't understand what a "safe" derailment would be.
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– AlexP
16 hours ago
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@AlexP 'Safe' derailment as in a train is removed from the path of transit while minimising the damage to the derailed train.
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– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
4
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The fastest solution - the one that avoids slowing down the priority train - is stopping the other train, then force it to go backwards until the closest place where it can move out of the way (a railroad switch) or until the priority train destination. Any other solution is going to take even more time.
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– Rekesoft
14 hours ago
1
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@Rekesoft Having the opposing train become part of the priority train? That would be a sensible answer I'd be willing to upvote.
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– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
1
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@UKMonkey Isn't that what makes it worth being a question? The fact that bypasses aren't permitted?
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– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
$begingroup$
Imagine a single, long, straight stretch of track. On the track there is a train heading in one direction at 100 km/h and a second train heading towards it at 200 km/h. The latter train is a special priority train that should not slow down at any cost.
Edit: Let us assume the trains are 75 km apart, resulting in 15 minutes until a full-on collision if no action is taken. Answers needn't adhere to this guideline.
How do I prevent the former train from slowing down the latter without causing major damage to the former train?
Answers adjusting the infrastructure or train construction before the encounter are acceptable, so long as there are no fixed bypasses or signals.
Reasons why such a long, single track may exist could, for example, be:
- The line is temporary or new and only a single track has been completed.
- There are spacial limitations such as the line running through a narrow valley/ravine
- There are structural limitations such as the surrounding ground being highly expensive to stabilise sufficiently
- There are political or cultural limitations such as funding cuts, building permissions, heritage bridges/tunnels or surrounding nature reserves
physics engineering transportation infrastructure
$endgroup$
Imagine a single, long, straight stretch of track. On the track there is a train heading in one direction at 100 km/h and a second train heading towards it at 200 km/h. The latter train is a special priority train that should not slow down at any cost.
Edit: Let us assume the trains are 75 km apart, resulting in 15 minutes until a full-on collision if no action is taken. Answers needn't adhere to this guideline.
How do I prevent the former train from slowing down the latter without causing major damage to the former train?
Answers adjusting the infrastructure or train construction before the encounter are acceptable, so long as there are no fixed bypasses or signals.
Reasons why such a long, single track may exist could, for example, be:
- The line is temporary or new and only a single track has been completed.
- There are spacial limitations such as the line running through a narrow valley/ravine
- There are structural limitations such as the surrounding ground being highly expensive to stabilise sufficiently
- There are political or cultural limitations such as funding cuts, building permissions, heritage bridges/tunnels or surrounding nature reserves
physics engineering transportation infrastructure
physics engineering transportation infrastructure
edited 11 hours ago
A Lambent Eye
asked 16 hours ago
A Lambent EyeA Lambent Eye
1,653732
1,653732
2
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"Although accidental derailment is damaging to equipment and track, and requires considerable time and expense to remedy, derails are used in situations where there is a risk of greater damage to equipment, injury or death if equipment is allowed to proceed past the derail point." (A "derail" or "derailer" is a device used to prevent fouling -- blocking or compromising -- of a rail track, or to avoid collisions with anything present on the track; it works by derailing equipment passing over it.) I don't understand what a "safe" derailment would be.
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– AlexP
16 hours ago
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@AlexP 'Safe' derailment as in a train is removed from the path of transit while minimising the damage to the derailed train.
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– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
4
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The fastest solution - the one that avoids slowing down the priority train - is stopping the other train, then force it to go backwards until the closest place where it can move out of the way (a railroad switch) or until the priority train destination. Any other solution is going to take even more time.
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– Rekesoft
14 hours ago
1
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@Rekesoft Having the opposing train become part of the priority train? That would be a sensible answer I'd be willing to upvote.
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– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
1
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@UKMonkey Isn't that what makes it worth being a question? The fact that bypasses aren't permitted?
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– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
2
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"Although accidental derailment is damaging to equipment and track, and requires considerable time and expense to remedy, derails are used in situations where there is a risk of greater damage to equipment, injury or death if equipment is allowed to proceed past the derail point." (A "derail" or "derailer" is a device used to prevent fouling -- blocking or compromising -- of a rail track, or to avoid collisions with anything present on the track; it works by derailing equipment passing over it.) I don't understand what a "safe" derailment would be.
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– AlexP
16 hours ago
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@AlexP 'Safe' derailment as in a train is removed from the path of transit while minimising the damage to the derailed train.
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– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
4
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The fastest solution - the one that avoids slowing down the priority train - is stopping the other train, then force it to go backwards until the closest place where it can move out of the way (a railroad switch) or until the priority train destination. Any other solution is going to take even more time.
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– Rekesoft
14 hours ago
1
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@Rekesoft Having the opposing train become part of the priority train? That would be a sensible answer I'd be willing to upvote.
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– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
1
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@UKMonkey Isn't that what makes it worth being a question? The fact that bypasses aren't permitted?
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– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago
2
2
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"Although accidental derailment is damaging to equipment and track, and requires considerable time and expense to remedy, derails are used in situations where there is a risk of greater damage to equipment, injury or death if equipment is allowed to proceed past the derail point." (A "derail" or "derailer" is a device used to prevent fouling -- blocking or compromising -- of a rail track, or to avoid collisions with anything present on the track; it works by derailing equipment passing over it.) I don't understand what a "safe" derailment would be.
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– AlexP
16 hours ago
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"Although accidental derailment is damaging to equipment and track, and requires considerable time and expense to remedy, derails are used in situations where there is a risk of greater damage to equipment, injury or death if equipment is allowed to proceed past the derail point." (A "derail" or "derailer" is a device used to prevent fouling -- blocking or compromising -- of a rail track, or to avoid collisions with anything present on the track; it works by derailing equipment passing over it.) I don't understand what a "safe" derailment would be.
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– AlexP
16 hours ago
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@AlexP 'Safe' derailment as in a train is removed from the path of transit while minimising the damage to the derailed train.
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– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
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@AlexP 'Safe' derailment as in a train is removed from the path of transit while minimising the damage to the derailed train.
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– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
4
4
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The fastest solution - the one that avoids slowing down the priority train - is stopping the other train, then force it to go backwards until the closest place where it can move out of the way (a railroad switch) or until the priority train destination. Any other solution is going to take even more time.
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– Rekesoft
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
The fastest solution - the one that avoids slowing down the priority train - is stopping the other train, then force it to go backwards until the closest place where it can move out of the way (a railroad switch) or until the priority train destination. Any other solution is going to take even more time.
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– Rekesoft
14 hours ago
1
1
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@Rekesoft Having the opposing train become part of the priority train? That would be a sensible answer I'd be willing to upvote.
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– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
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@Rekesoft Having the opposing train become part of the priority train? That would be a sensible answer I'd be willing to upvote.
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– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
1
1
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@UKMonkey Isn't that what makes it worth being a question? The fact that bypasses aren't permitted?
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– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago
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@UKMonkey Isn't that what makes it worth being a question? The fact that bypasses aren't permitted?
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– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
17 Answers
17
active
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The Fast and the Furiously Crazy
Since you've eliminated the sensible solution (bypasses or double tracks), let's go with an insane one!
All your trains have rail tracks running on top of them and extra wagons with ramps at the front and back. When a priority train approaches, they lower the ramps onto the rails and the priority train drives straight over them as if it were a bridge.
Some notes:
- The slower train should drive at maximum speed if overtaken from behind or stop if the prio train approaches from the front.
- The ramps will need to be very long to prevent the prio train from jumping the tracks or going completely airborne. Rollercoaster-like guardrails could assist here, adding the weight of the bottom train to the downward force.
- This only works with very straight tracks. Very. Straight.
- It is not recommended to attempt overtaking a train that is overtaking another.
A more boring but slightly more sensible variant of this is that the slower train stops at a depression/valley in the track so that the rails on top become level. You could even have moving sections of track that can lower so that the slow train when stopped there is essentially replacing that section with its roof rails. This might count as a fixed bypass though.
Sideways treads
Here is a second more boring solution: All locomotives and wagons are powered and carry retractable treads underneath that allow sideways movement. These treads are wide and solid to support the train, but have indentations to protect the rail bars from damage.
When a train is commanded to make way it comes to a stop, lowers the treads to the ground and moves to the side until it is clear of the tracks. After the prio train has passed, it rolls back onto the track, aligning the wheels with the rails carefully, then retracts the treads and resumes its journey on the rails.
In these trains, each wagon has its own electric motors for driving both wheels and treads. This increases the total weight of the train, but distributes it better than pure locomotive/unpowered wagons so there is no 250 ton locomotive to move onto the mud. The locomotive in this case mostly houses the (diesel) generators that supply electricity to the train and the controls.
The ground next to the train tracks needs to be level and sturdy enough to support the weight of the train, but not quite to the standard of the rails themselves.
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Since I'm going to be the duty rules lawyer on this, maximum train climb gradients, trains really don't like hills. I will ignore any issues about overloading the lower train structure, axles, or the tracks.
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– Separatrix
16 hours ago
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A similar solution to my first thought, but then you also get problems with the front of the train moving at a different speed to the back when climbing over the other train, unless the lower train is absolutely still. The problem I see with the depression is that the train needs to be of a specified length to 'fill the gap'.
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– A Lambent Eye
15 hours ago
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You could store extra supports and track segments near the depression to make up the excess, but at a point that just turns into a more complicated (vertical) bypass.
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– Cadence
14 hours ago
1
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@Separatrix trains are about 4 - 4.5m high and carriages ~20m long. If the ramp is two carriages long, that is 4:40 or a 1.10 incline, which is below various of the inclines given in the linked article. So it certainly could work if the overtaken taken is at least 4 carriages long, to be able to carry 2 such ramps.
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– Polygnome
13 hours ago
4
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You mean like this time it was done in real life but with longer rails?
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– Joe Bloggs
5 hours ago
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You can't
Well you can, but it's going to take a few days. First you're going to need to get the infrastructure in place.
A train weighs between 1500 and 6000tons. I'm assuming this is a passenger train rather than a cargo train which could weigh nearly 100,000 tons.
We're going to need cranes in place able to lift at least 250tons just to move the engine out of the way. Such things do exist as they're part of the breakdown and derailment recovery processes but they're not exactly common, it may take a day or two just to get them into place.
You also need to make sure there's a safe and stable surface to put your engine onto that isn't the tracks. It still weighs up to 250tons, so you can't just put it down on unprepared ground and preparing ground for that sort of load takes time.
I'm sure you can see where this is going. There's no quick and safe way to remove a train from the tracks.
Accidental derailment also damages the tracks often over long distances, a general theme is that it takes a week to ten days to recover and repair after a relatively minor incident.
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Could there be a way of modifying the track or train wheel morphology to allow the train to be moved quicker? The thought occurs since one would at least need to clear the flange from the rail.
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– A Lambent Eye
15 hours ago
2
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@ALambentEye, the flange is only a couple of inches, the engineering of train wheels is beautiful in its simplicity. The issue is simply the sheer weight of what you're trying to move in a safe manner.
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– Separatrix
15 hours ago
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Could there be a way of constructing the locomotive and carriages to 'eject' everything but the actual frame off the track and onto a deployed surface to distribute weight before having the frame lifted off? I could imagine that could speed up the process.
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– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
2
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@ALambentEye, let's say you build the tracks on a wide base so there's suitably prepared ground either side of the tracks, you then build all your trains with side struts like a crane, these can be extended and used to move the entire train up and across to clear the tracks. You then have to justify why you've done something so complex when it would be quicker, cheaper, simpler, and less maintenance to build parallel tracks.
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– Separatrix
14 hours ago
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Under usual circumstances only a single rail is required, having the train fitted with a solution to the problem allows the rapid and cheap extension of the rail network. If there are few enough trains relative to the amount of track it could be deemed cheaper.
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– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
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Two trains become one.
On the track there is a train heading in one direction at 100 km/h and a second train heading towards it at 200 km/h.
You do not specify the distance between them. If there is some distance there is time for this maneuver.
Slow train slows down, stops, goes into reverse.
Previously slow train accelerates, in reverse, until it is going almost 200 km/h.
Fast train will slowly close the distance. When the two trains are very close, they are linked. This is not something routinely done with fast moving trains but is done all the time with slow moving trains. It does not seem outrageous; relative to one another the trains are barely moving, or even not moving. It is akin to refuelling a plane in flight except easier because the trains are on the same track.
You now have one fast train, going the specified direction at the specified speed. The fast train did not have to break stride. The slow train did not leave the tracks. You did not have to build anything new.
The neat thing about trains is that the size of the train is fluid - it can be longer or shorter according to need, and trains can be merged and split.
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You could even trasfer things from one side of the train to the other and have the other basically detach and you have now the slow train again. Lovely solution and reminds me of the replacing a ship part by part paradox :)
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– Hakaishin
8 hours ago
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@Hakaishin - I like that very much, and would like it even more if I were a passenger on the slow train.
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– Willk
7 hours ago
2
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A related but likely simpler solution: the train stops, then accelerates in the opposite direction to 201km/h. Sort out this snafu after the trains reach the destination.
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– Cort Ammon
7 hours ago
1
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@CortAmmon - “WORK? Why, cert’nly it would work, like rats a-fighting. But it’s too blame’ simple; there ain’t nothing TO it. What’s the good of a plan that ain’t no more trouble than that? It’s as mild as goose-milk. Why, Huck, it wouldn’t make no more talk than breaking into a soap factory.” Tom Sawyer, from Huckleberry Finn.
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– Willk
6 hours ago
add a comment |
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I have an idea which I'll try to put into writing but it might not be obvious what I'm driving at. I actually had a couple of thoughts on this but one may be more sensible than the other.
Up and Over
My initial thought was that one of the trains, probably the 200 km/h one as it would already likely be a streamliner, would be designed in such a way that it's front is like a ramp and it has rails built into the ramp which run along the track in front of it. These rails continue over the carriage roof and the rear of the train look like the front. The oncoming train could then be forced to run over the top of the fast train. This does however require that the train that goes over is able to climb an unrealistic gradient although oncoming speed may assist. It also assumed that there are no overhead electricity cables but that the train above is able to continue to proceed without a "third rail" either.
Shall we dance?
As an alternative to the up and over method, I came up with something that could actually work. On a traditional track, you'd place the 100 km/h train in a siding and have it wait until the 200 km/h train had passed. I realise that this can't work because it requires you to know where the siding would need to be.
However, when you consider what a train requires, it is essentially rails on which to run. Now, imagine that each train is carrying some sort of short section of rail at it's front which is angled from the right to the left of the track. When the two trains come close enough, these angled tracks collide and are forced into the rail bed. This causes the left-hand wheel set of each train to jump off the left hand track and the right hand wheel set is forced onto the left hand rail. This effectively derails both trains simultaneously causing a massive accident. However, if the tops of each train were designed to carry some sort of rail / tube on top of the train with some sort of interlocking arm, the weight of each train would be carried by the other.
Each train would hold the other up, a little like a spinning ballerina is supported by one of two feet and by a dance partner at the top of their arm, outstretched above their heads. Both locomotives would progress along the same piece of track but using just one rail each, each locomotive offset and supported by the other.
Once they had passed each other, an assembly at the rear of each train could "re-rail" the wheel sets back to their original location which would effectively by a mirror of the assembly at the front of the train.
Hopefully this makes some sense. If not, I could possibly try to sketch out how it would look.
Edit Added sketch
Edit 2 - "Budge Over" trains
You could potentially re-design the trains to allow the "shall we dance" method to be a little less severe. Instead of forcing the trains to jump to the opposite track, design the trains to have an angled cab with looks like a triangle when viewed from above. Along one side of the train, have interlocking "rails" which would interface with each other, shoving the oncoming train onto the side of the opposing carriage.
Redesign the wheel sets so that they had one fixed set of wheels and one "sprung" set which were floating so the trains could continue to run one wheelset on a single rail but the other would float in free air under the train.
This would effectively allow trains to "slither" past each other. Whilst this refinement to the design probably makes the solution a little more realistic, it does remove some of the grand drama that the "Shall we dance" method has.
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What an elegant and adrenaline-filled solution! A sketch would nevertheless be appreciated, especially since I am unsure as to how the re-railing would work. There also may be difficulties if the trains have two vastly different lengths.
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– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
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I'll knock a sketch together. I did wonder if different length trains could be catered for by the mechanism on the roof having some sort of extending retractable pole / cable that is only released at the point the longer train is back on both rails. Perhaps it could spring back at high speed like a massive version of one of those retractile steel tape measured being released?
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– Steve Matthews
14 hours ago
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Thank you! I suppose strength could be a issue then. Could one in theory have one still on the tracks as the 'plow' and have the other hang alongside it before reconnecting to the tracks? That way it could always be guaranteed that the 'flying' segment has a similar weight to the segment it is passing while the rest of the weight rests stably on the tracks pre- and succeeding the 'plow'.
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– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
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I'd have visions of the mechanism on the top of the train initially looking a little like a jousting knight on top of a horse. You'd effectively be using the weight and momentum of each of the trains to be the counterweight of the other.
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– Steve Matthews
14 hours ago
13
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It's brilliant, it could never work, but who cares.
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– Separatrix
14 hours ago
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Jackscrews
The slow train will come to a complete stop. At both ends of each of its cars, two outrigger hydraulic- or screw jacks (each as tall as the train) are extended outwards to beyond the fast train's width, and after this downwards to beyond the height of the fast train, lifting up the entire slow train. Effectively, this forms a tunnel underneath the slow train through which the fast train can travel.
After the fast train has passed, the train will be lowered exactly to its original position. If necessary, minor corrections can be performed laterally by varying the outrigger's position.
For those who believe one cannot lift a heavy train with compact jack screws or hydraulic jacks, look no further than self driving cranes.
Apparently, a prototype already exists:
(both images from Wikimedia)
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A good suggestion! A link would be appreciated.
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– A Lambent Eye
11 hours ago
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@ALambentEye I assume you mean the second picture? I'm not exactly sure what Google terms I used but it's from some Italian wikipedia article: it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sollevatrice_idraulica
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– Sanchises
11 hours ago
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Thank you, that already provides a little more information. commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/…
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– A Lambent Eye
11 hours ago
add a comment |
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Use road wheels on the slower train. Build it out of railcars like these:
When the faster train approaches, just stop, raise your rail wheels, and drive off the tracks.
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Could you elaborate on how that could help? I imagine it being rather difficult to get on and off the tracks without making use of a road crossing.
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– A Lambent Eye
12 hours ago
1
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@ALambentEye They make plastic ramps exactly for that purpose. The problem with this solution though is that logically, if there was space to take the slow train off rail, you might as well install a siding there.
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– user71659
11 hours ago
1
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@ALambentEye : The Unimog has amazing off-road abilities, and it can be equipped with rail wheels. Unfortunately I couldn't find a video showing both. But the very same vehicle which you see climbing in that video has variants equipped with rail wheels.
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– vsz
10 hours ago
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How would this work with carriages?
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– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago
1
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@ALambentEye : Does the question require only using existing railcars without any modifications? If not, then equip your carriages with road wheels too... or just couple several Unimogs together to form your train. Or just make a custom designed vehicle, based on this idea. I only showed that there are already vehicles which can travel on rail and also have good off-road capabilities.
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– vsz
9 hours ago
add a comment |
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On the slow train by each set of wheels also put a set of 3 wheels at 90 degrees to the main ones, each on an extending pistons.
When it needs to let the fast train pass it stops and lowers the wheels on pistons, then drives sideways off the track (it needs 3 so it can lift one to pass over the rails and still have 2 on the ground).
Once the fast train has passed it reverses the process to drive back onto the train and recenter itself then lifts the extra wheels and continues.
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add a comment |
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Hold the regular train at the last switch or junction
The question says:
Answers adjusting the infrastructure or train construction before the encounter are acceptable, so long as there are no fixed bypasses or signals.
Rail roads always have sidings and some form of communications specifically to keep trains from arguing over right-of-way while at mutual approach, better phrased as "colliding". Therefore, by construction of the question, at each end of this long section of single track there is a switch for double tracking, siding, or some other place where a train could wait.
A high priority train in the absence of traffic signalling should run on a timetable. The rail traffic control point at each end of the long section of track will have the latest timetable for when the high priority train is scheduled to enter and to leave that section. They will therefore hold all oncoming traffic until they observe that the high priority train has departed the section.
The rail road company would probably make a major effort to improve signalling between the control points, so that they can communicate when a train enters the section and when it leaves. This might be beyond the scope of your work, however.
This infrastructure isn't only for the benefit of the high priority train -- this is for the benefit of all trains, and maintenance as well: Any track work or blockage has to be handled without additional trains making the situation more blocked.
Edit based on comment:
Even for an unscheduled express or emergency train -- especially for an emergency train -- the rail road will have some form of communication specifically to prevent unintended cases of head-on collisions.
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1
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Well yes, but no. The priority transport could, for example, be an emergency service. In this case it would not make sense to have the train bond to a timetable.
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– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
1
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Good point, I hadn't thought of that. And still, there WILL be some way to communicate ahead, "HOLD ALL TRAINS".
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– Codes with Hammer
10 hours ago
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Quite so, but simply using signals does not answer the question wholly. One example of this would be when there is a train already on such a stretch of track as the priority train is dispersed, the entry of the priority train onto the stretch being imminent (for example, the depot is on the nearest junction to the isolated line).
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– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
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It seems to me that a civilization capable of building a single rail block 75km long fully rated for trains traveling 200 kph could also figure out the logistics to clear the track when the super-express needs to use it.
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– Codes with Hammer
10 hours ago
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That is precisely what we are trying to figure out.
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– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
add a comment |
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Use a large Outrigger Suspension system
If you google "Outrigger on crane" you will find many examples of retractable rigging on smaller vehicles to prevent them from tipping over, usually cranes. The trains in your world could all be fitted with a variant of this system that is designed to hydraulically lift the cars of the train high enough to allow the other one to pass beneath.
The contact points would all be well outside of the track and it would not matter much the location at which the train stops since each contact point can be raised to a variable height. The best part is that it would only take a couple minutes to fully suspend the train. Also, since all trains could theoretically be outfitted with something like this, shifting priorities in the train schedule would have little impact.
Furthermore, the use of this technology could be justified by explaining that the cost of implementing something like this on all trains is cheaper that laying a completely separate parallel track.
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Depending on your technology level, all train tracks could be raised off the ground and have rails above and below. All East/North bound trains run on the top rails. All West/South bound trains travel hanging on the bottom side of the tracks. Inside the cars are tubes so that the ceiling can always remain up. Every 10 kilometers or so, you could have loops that could move a train from one track to another, so a faster train could overtake and pass a slower train going the same direction.
New contributor
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add a comment |
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The most realistic way to do it fast, if you don't have the infrastructure in place, is to:
- Stop the less prioritary train;
- Use a crane to move it off the rails;
- Once the priority train has passed, use the crane to move the less prioritary train back onto the rails.
Cranes are awesomely strong. Just go to Google and do a dearch image for 'crane 100 tons'. You'll see that a lot.of relatively small models can lift that much. Also remember that even if your train weights much more than that, you only have to lift one wagon at a time.
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1
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A 100ton crane can lift up to 18 tons and you probably need to lift well over 200tons to move the engine. The numbers for commercial and industrial vehicles are a bit weird until you get used to them. A simple example is that a 3.5 ton van has a cargo capacity of around 1.5 tons because the other 2 tons is the van itself.
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– Separatrix
15 hours ago
1
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@Separatrix "A 100ton crane can lift up to 18 tons" I'm not sure where you're getting that information from. For example, the Terex AC100/4 is described as a "100 ton crane" and it can lift 100 tons (see spec sheet, p9) at zero radius. More realistically, it can lift 80 tons at a radius of 3m. However, I doubt that one could lift even an 80t locomotive (perfectly reasonable for a European passenger locomotive) off the tracks in just 15 minutes: that takes a lot of preparation.
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– David Richerby
10 hours ago
1
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@DavidRicherby I was reading data sheets from one of the manufacturers along with generic search results.
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– Separatrix
9 hours ago
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@Separatrix Ah. Perhaps the data was for lifting at some "standard" radius or something?
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– David Richerby
9 hours ago
1
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@DavidRicherby potentially, since the lifting capacity will drop off rapidly once outside the footprint of the crane
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– Separatrix
9 hours ago
add a comment |
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former train stops and reverses. Fast train catches up. Passengers swap over to opposite train. Fast train decouples, stops, reverses direction. the former train is now the fast train, and the passengers never slowed down.
New contributor
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2
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While a sensible suggestion, this answer only works if the trains are both passenger trains and have the same speed and power. Were either of them goods trains, or the slower train not capable of reaching the required speeds, the solution would be insufficient.
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– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
An impractical but possible 2nd answer.
The fast train has lifts at both ends and tracks on the roof.
The slow train stops, reverses, and allows fast train to catch up.
Fast train now uses front lift to raise carriage, roll it across the top of itself and put it back down with the opposite lift.
Does this with all carriages and engine then the 2 seperate and the slow train stops, reverses, continues.
New contributor
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Is this a more compact version of a ramp, as per Cyrus' suggestion?
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– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
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yep I guess it is a variation on the same theme
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– guest
10 hours ago
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Difference between this and a ramp is that it's (slightly) more feasible. Trains don't do ramps, but they can do lifts. And doing this carriage by carriage works, and takes advantage of the modular construction of trains. If max speed of slow train is 100km/h, this is better than the "just couple both trains together" option, as it allows the fast train to speed up again after they meet, minimizing time lost.
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– Dewi Morgan
9 hours ago
add a comment |
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Your only real hope is a track gang who can move fast.
They find a place along the track near the starting position of the slow train, where a bolted joint exists that's staggered by just a few feet between the two rails. It should not be a special joint such as an insulated joint. If it's not there, get a rail saw and rail drill in advance, and create a joint. The crew stages out there with a bulldozer and a number of semiloads of track panels and a crane, and they lay down enough temporary track to easily fit the slow train.
Long before it arrives, they unbolt the main track, shove one main about 5 feet to the left, the other 5 feet to the right (the staggering decides which goes which way), grade the subgrade to level, and drop in the temporary track to meet it. Throw 2 bolts in the joint bars, no more. Have the slow train crawl into this temporary track, and about 100' past the joint.
Now you have 15 minutes to reverse. A bulldozer is already chained to the temporary track, and six other bulldozer or big SUV winches are tied to the main track, ready to pull the segments back where they belong. Yank the 2 bolts, pull the tracks over, and a few workers tighten the 6 mainline bolts while many other workers with gas powered jackhammers tamp the main track back to level. ZOOM, the other train tears through.
This is achievable with a crew that knows what it's doing. Railroad track is "lego" like that.
Rinse, wash, repeat to back the first train out onto the main again, reassemble the main, and the first train is on its way.
Of course you know, nobody goes 200kph without some sort of automatic signal systems to prevent collisions. There'll never be any danger of collision, because the signal system will stop the trains if a train is in the way or the track is severed.
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add a comment |
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Helicopters
Assuming money is no object--this will be expensive, and it will require precision high speed work by skilled personnel. It should result in no harm to equipment or passengers.
There are a number of models of heavy-lift helicopters out there; wikipedia has a list. Attach lifting cables, decouple the train cars, and lift them out of the way individually.
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@Aethenosity the weight objection is valid, but it would be feasible to posit a very abnormally light passenger train, or just hand wave the weight away. (This entire scenario stretches the limits of reason to begin with; most of these suggestions stretch even Hollywood physics.) It's also technically possible to use two helicopters to lift a large load, even though it's borderline insane: aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/24978/…
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– Adam Miller
5 hours ago
1
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@Aethenosity, you'd only need five Mi-26s (lift capacity: 20 metric tons) to handle most freight cars. Still outside hand-wave range.
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– Mark
4 hours ago
add a comment |
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Catch Points
Catch Points exist explicitly for this scenario, to redirect a runaway train off a track or away from a dangerous situation without requiring it to be slowed down.
If you need a nice ad-hoc solution using no specific rail safety measures, perhaps a dead-end track-switch or branch that never went anywhere would work in place of a purpose-built catch-point.
Just remove the end-cap/bumper that blocks the track, switch the low-priority train onto that, drive straight off the end of the track and coast on solid ground.
Once the low-priority train is out of the way, switch the track back and watch the high-priority train rush past safely.
These dead-ends can be found in a lot of places, often in places where a train track has been torn up due to age or redundancy. They might be in documentation somewhere, but narratively it's the sort of information an expert on the area would have and someone who just travels the line wouldn't notice.
This approach would be great for dramatic effect.
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You managed to find the corner case I was expecting: Not a derailer, so no damage, but also not a bypass, since it doesn't rejoin. I suppose my only argument would be that they would have to be placed regularly since one may not know whether one can reach the next before the priority train is confronted.
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– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
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Very true, which is why I suggested a dead end of an unfinished or partially dismantled line as being useful as an ad-hoc Catch-point. I'm particularly liking that using this would require lateral thinking and area-knowledge from any characters in your story or narrative. So it's dramatically much more satisfying than "and they used a well placed safety measure to safely derail a train"
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– Ruadhan
10 hours ago
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It is a classic point of drama in railway novels, or so I'm told...
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– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago
2
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Catch points derail the train. Derailling a train at 100km/h is absolutely not safe for the occupants of that train. It's safer than colliding with a train going at 200km/h in the opposite direction, but you're still going to have fatalities. Specifically, running off the track will cause the front of the train to decelerate suddenly, while the back continues to run forwards and concertinas. Now you have a selection of railway carriages at 90 degrees across the track, ready for the fast train to plough into.
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– David Richerby
9 hours ago
add a comment |
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No problem. Captain Kirk is orbiting above the trains in the Starship Enterprise. He has Scotty take over the transporter and Scotty beams the first train behind the second to avoid the collision.
New contributor
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Why didn't I think of this before? Ingenious!
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– A Lambent Eye
6 hours ago
1
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@ALambentEye -- Sort of begs the question -- With such transporter technology, why are trains still being used?
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– MaxW
6 hours ago
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
The Fast and the Furiously Crazy
Since you've eliminated the sensible solution (bypasses or double tracks), let's go with an insane one!
All your trains have rail tracks running on top of them and extra wagons with ramps at the front and back. When a priority train approaches, they lower the ramps onto the rails and the priority train drives straight over them as if it were a bridge.
Some notes:
- The slower train should drive at maximum speed if overtaken from behind or stop if the prio train approaches from the front.
- The ramps will need to be very long to prevent the prio train from jumping the tracks or going completely airborne. Rollercoaster-like guardrails could assist here, adding the weight of the bottom train to the downward force.
- This only works with very straight tracks. Very. Straight.
- It is not recommended to attempt overtaking a train that is overtaking another.
A more boring but slightly more sensible variant of this is that the slower train stops at a depression/valley in the track so that the rails on top become level. You could even have moving sections of track that can lower so that the slow train when stopped there is essentially replacing that section with its roof rails. This might count as a fixed bypass though.
Sideways treads
Here is a second more boring solution: All locomotives and wagons are powered and carry retractable treads underneath that allow sideways movement. These treads are wide and solid to support the train, but have indentations to protect the rail bars from damage.
When a train is commanded to make way it comes to a stop, lowers the treads to the ground and moves to the side until it is clear of the tracks. After the prio train has passed, it rolls back onto the track, aligning the wheels with the rails carefully, then retracts the treads and resumes its journey on the rails.
In these trains, each wagon has its own electric motors for driving both wheels and treads. This increases the total weight of the train, but distributes it better than pure locomotive/unpowered wagons so there is no 250 ton locomotive to move onto the mud. The locomotive in this case mostly houses the (diesel) generators that supply electricity to the train and the controls.
The ground next to the train tracks needs to be level and sturdy enough to support the weight of the train, but not quite to the standard of the rails themselves.
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8
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Since I'm going to be the duty rules lawyer on this, maximum train climb gradients, trains really don't like hills. I will ignore any issues about overloading the lower train structure, axles, or the tracks.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
16 hours ago
$begingroup$
A similar solution to my first thought, but then you also get problems with the front of the train moving at a different speed to the back when climbing over the other train, unless the lower train is absolutely still. The problem I see with the depression is that the train needs to be of a specified length to 'fill the gap'.
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– A Lambent Eye
15 hours ago
$begingroup$
You could store extra supports and track segments near the depression to make up the excess, but at a point that just turns into a more complicated (vertical) bypass.
$endgroup$
– Cadence
14 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Separatrix trains are about 4 - 4.5m high and carriages ~20m long. If the ramp is two carriages long, that is 4:40 or a 1.10 incline, which is below various of the inclines given in the linked article. So it certainly could work if the overtaken taken is at least 4 carriages long, to be able to carry 2 such ramps.
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– Polygnome
13 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
You mean like this time it was done in real life but with longer rails?
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
5 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
The Fast and the Furiously Crazy
Since you've eliminated the sensible solution (bypasses or double tracks), let's go with an insane one!
All your trains have rail tracks running on top of them and extra wagons with ramps at the front and back. When a priority train approaches, they lower the ramps onto the rails and the priority train drives straight over them as if it were a bridge.
Some notes:
- The slower train should drive at maximum speed if overtaken from behind or stop if the prio train approaches from the front.
- The ramps will need to be very long to prevent the prio train from jumping the tracks or going completely airborne. Rollercoaster-like guardrails could assist here, adding the weight of the bottom train to the downward force.
- This only works with very straight tracks. Very. Straight.
- It is not recommended to attempt overtaking a train that is overtaking another.
A more boring but slightly more sensible variant of this is that the slower train stops at a depression/valley in the track so that the rails on top become level. You could even have moving sections of track that can lower so that the slow train when stopped there is essentially replacing that section with its roof rails. This might count as a fixed bypass though.
Sideways treads
Here is a second more boring solution: All locomotives and wagons are powered and carry retractable treads underneath that allow sideways movement. These treads are wide and solid to support the train, but have indentations to protect the rail bars from damage.
When a train is commanded to make way it comes to a stop, lowers the treads to the ground and moves to the side until it is clear of the tracks. After the prio train has passed, it rolls back onto the track, aligning the wheels with the rails carefully, then retracts the treads and resumes its journey on the rails.
In these trains, each wagon has its own electric motors for driving both wheels and treads. This increases the total weight of the train, but distributes it better than pure locomotive/unpowered wagons so there is no 250 ton locomotive to move onto the mud. The locomotive in this case mostly houses the (diesel) generators that supply electricity to the train and the controls.
The ground next to the train tracks needs to be level and sturdy enough to support the weight of the train, but not quite to the standard of the rails themselves.
$endgroup$
8
$begingroup$
Since I'm going to be the duty rules lawyer on this, maximum train climb gradients, trains really don't like hills. I will ignore any issues about overloading the lower train structure, axles, or the tracks.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
16 hours ago
$begingroup$
A similar solution to my first thought, but then you also get problems with the front of the train moving at a different speed to the back when climbing over the other train, unless the lower train is absolutely still. The problem I see with the depression is that the train needs to be of a specified length to 'fill the gap'.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
15 hours ago
$begingroup$
You could store extra supports and track segments near the depression to make up the excess, but at a point that just turns into a more complicated (vertical) bypass.
$endgroup$
– Cadence
14 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Separatrix trains are about 4 - 4.5m high and carriages ~20m long. If the ramp is two carriages long, that is 4:40 or a 1.10 incline, which is below various of the inclines given in the linked article. So it certainly could work if the overtaken taken is at least 4 carriages long, to be able to carry 2 such ramps.
$endgroup$
– Polygnome
13 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
You mean like this time it was done in real life but with longer rails?
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
5 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
The Fast and the Furiously Crazy
Since you've eliminated the sensible solution (bypasses or double tracks), let's go with an insane one!
All your trains have rail tracks running on top of them and extra wagons with ramps at the front and back. When a priority train approaches, they lower the ramps onto the rails and the priority train drives straight over them as if it were a bridge.
Some notes:
- The slower train should drive at maximum speed if overtaken from behind or stop if the prio train approaches from the front.
- The ramps will need to be very long to prevent the prio train from jumping the tracks or going completely airborne. Rollercoaster-like guardrails could assist here, adding the weight of the bottom train to the downward force.
- This only works with very straight tracks. Very. Straight.
- It is not recommended to attempt overtaking a train that is overtaking another.
A more boring but slightly more sensible variant of this is that the slower train stops at a depression/valley in the track so that the rails on top become level. You could even have moving sections of track that can lower so that the slow train when stopped there is essentially replacing that section with its roof rails. This might count as a fixed bypass though.
Sideways treads
Here is a second more boring solution: All locomotives and wagons are powered and carry retractable treads underneath that allow sideways movement. These treads are wide and solid to support the train, but have indentations to protect the rail bars from damage.
When a train is commanded to make way it comes to a stop, lowers the treads to the ground and moves to the side until it is clear of the tracks. After the prio train has passed, it rolls back onto the track, aligning the wheels with the rails carefully, then retracts the treads and resumes its journey on the rails.
In these trains, each wagon has its own electric motors for driving both wheels and treads. This increases the total weight of the train, but distributes it better than pure locomotive/unpowered wagons so there is no 250 ton locomotive to move onto the mud. The locomotive in this case mostly houses the (diesel) generators that supply electricity to the train and the controls.
The ground next to the train tracks needs to be level and sturdy enough to support the weight of the train, but not quite to the standard of the rails themselves.
$endgroup$
The Fast and the Furiously Crazy
Since you've eliminated the sensible solution (bypasses or double tracks), let's go with an insane one!
All your trains have rail tracks running on top of them and extra wagons with ramps at the front and back. When a priority train approaches, they lower the ramps onto the rails and the priority train drives straight over them as if it were a bridge.
Some notes:
- The slower train should drive at maximum speed if overtaken from behind or stop if the prio train approaches from the front.
- The ramps will need to be very long to prevent the prio train from jumping the tracks or going completely airborne. Rollercoaster-like guardrails could assist here, adding the weight of the bottom train to the downward force.
- This only works with very straight tracks. Very. Straight.
- It is not recommended to attempt overtaking a train that is overtaking another.
A more boring but slightly more sensible variant of this is that the slower train stops at a depression/valley in the track so that the rails on top become level. You could even have moving sections of track that can lower so that the slow train when stopped there is essentially replacing that section with its roof rails. This might count as a fixed bypass though.
Sideways treads
Here is a second more boring solution: All locomotives and wagons are powered and carry retractable treads underneath that allow sideways movement. These treads are wide and solid to support the train, but have indentations to protect the rail bars from damage.
When a train is commanded to make way it comes to a stop, lowers the treads to the ground and moves to the side until it is clear of the tracks. After the prio train has passed, it rolls back onto the track, aligning the wheels with the rails carefully, then retracts the treads and resumes its journey on the rails.
In these trains, each wagon has its own electric motors for driving both wheels and treads. This increases the total weight of the train, but distributes it better than pure locomotive/unpowered wagons so there is no 250 ton locomotive to move onto the mud. The locomotive in this case mostly houses the (diesel) generators that supply electricity to the train and the controls.
The ground next to the train tracks needs to be level and sturdy enough to support the weight of the train, but not quite to the standard of the rails themselves.
edited 9 hours ago
answered 16 hours ago
CyrusCyrus
18.3k34177
18.3k34177
8
$begingroup$
Since I'm going to be the duty rules lawyer on this, maximum train climb gradients, trains really don't like hills. I will ignore any issues about overloading the lower train structure, axles, or the tracks.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
16 hours ago
$begingroup$
A similar solution to my first thought, but then you also get problems with the front of the train moving at a different speed to the back when climbing over the other train, unless the lower train is absolutely still. The problem I see with the depression is that the train needs to be of a specified length to 'fill the gap'.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
15 hours ago
$begingroup$
You could store extra supports and track segments near the depression to make up the excess, but at a point that just turns into a more complicated (vertical) bypass.
$endgroup$
– Cadence
14 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Separatrix trains are about 4 - 4.5m high and carriages ~20m long. If the ramp is two carriages long, that is 4:40 or a 1.10 incline, which is below various of the inclines given in the linked article. So it certainly could work if the overtaken taken is at least 4 carriages long, to be able to carry 2 such ramps.
$endgroup$
– Polygnome
13 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
You mean like this time it was done in real life but with longer rails?
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
5 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
8
$begingroup$
Since I'm going to be the duty rules lawyer on this, maximum train climb gradients, trains really don't like hills. I will ignore any issues about overloading the lower train structure, axles, or the tracks.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
16 hours ago
$begingroup$
A similar solution to my first thought, but then you also get problems with the front of the train moving at a different speed to the back when climbing over the other train, unless the lower train is absolutely still. The problem I see with the depression is that the train needs to be of a specified length to 'fill the gap'.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
15 hours ago
$begingroup$
You could store extra supports and track segments near the depression to make up the excess, but at a point that just turns into a more complicated (vertical) bypass.
$endgroup$
– Cadence
14 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Separatrix trains are about 4 - 4.5m high and carriages ~20m long. If the ramp is two carriages long, that is 4:40 or a 1.10 incline, which is below various of the inclines given in the linked article. So it certainly could work if the overtaken taken is at least 4 carriages long, to be able to carry 2 such ramps.
$endgroup$
– Polygnome
13 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
You mean like this time it was done in real life but with longer rails?
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
5 hours ago
8
8
$begingroup$
Since I'm going to be the duty rules lawyer on this, maximum train climb gradients, trains really don't like hills. I will ignore any issues about overloading the lower train structure, axles, or the tracks.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
16 hours ago
$begingroup$
Since I'm going to be the duty rules lawyer on this, maximum train climb gradients, trains really don't like hills. I will ignore any issues about overloading the lower train structure, axles, or the tracks.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
16 hours ago
$begingroup$
A similar solution to my first thought, but then you also get problems with the front of the train moving at a different speed to the back when climbing over the other train, unless the lower train is absolutely still. The problem I see with the depression is that the train needs to be of a specified length to 'fill the gap'.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
15 hours ago
$begingroup$
A similar solution to my first thought, but then you also get problems with the front of the train moving at a different speed to the back when climbing over the other train, unless the lower train is absolutely still. The problem I see with the depression is that the train needs to be of a specified length to 'fill the gap'.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
15 hours ago
$begingroup$
You could store extra supports and track segments near the depression to make up the excess, but at a point that just turns into a more complicated (vertical) bypass.
$endgroup$
– Cadence
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
You could store extra supports and track segments near the depression to make up the excess, but at a point that just turns into a more complicated (vertical) bypass.
$endgroup$
– Cadence
14 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@Separatrix trains are about 4 - 4.5m high and carriages ~20m long. If the ramp is two carriages long, that is 4:40 or a 1.10 incline, which is below various of the inclines given in the linked article. So it certainly could work if the overtaken taken is at least 4 carriages long, to be able to carry 2 such ramps.
$endgroup$
– Polygnome
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Separatrix trains are about 4 - 4.5m high and carriages ~20m long. If the ramp is two carriages long, that is 4:40 or a 1.10 incline, which is below various of the inclines given in the linked article. So it certainly could work if the overtaken taken is at least 4 carriages long, to be able to carry 2 such ramps.
$endgroup$
– Polygnome
13 hours ago
4
4
$begingroup$
You mean like this time it was done in real life but with longer rails?
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
You mean like this time it was done in real life but with longer rails?
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
5 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
You can't
Well you can, but it's going to take a few days. First you're going to need to get the infrastructure in place.
A train weighs between 1500 and 6000tons. I'm assuming this is a passenger train rather than a cargo train which could weigh nearly 100,000 tons.
We're going to need cranes in place able to lift at least 250tons just to move the engine out of the way. Such things do exist as they're part of the breakdown and derailment recovery processes but they're not exactly common, it may take a day or two just to get them into place.
You also need to make sure there's a safe and stable surface to put your engine onto that isn't the tracks. It still weighs up to 250tons, so you can't just put it down on unprepared ground and preparing ground for that sort of load takes time.
I'm sure you can see where this is going. There's no quick and safe way to remove a train from the tracks.
Accidental derailment also damages the tracks often over long distances, a general theme is that it takes a week to ten days to recover and repair after a relatively minor incident.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Could there be a way of modifying the track or train wheel morphology to allow the train to be moved quicker? The thought occurs since one would at least need to clear the flange from the rail.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
15 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye, the flange is only a couple of inches, the engineering of train wheels is beautiful in its simplicity. The issue is simply the sheer weight of what you're trying to move in a safe manner.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
15 hours ago
$begingroup$
Could there be a way of constructing the locomotive and carriages to 'eject' everything but the actual frame off the track and onto a deployed surface to distribute weight before having the frame lifted off? I could imagine that could speed up the process.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye, let's say you build the tracks on a wide base so there's suitably prepared ground either side of the tracks, you then build all your trains with side struts like a crane, these can be extended and used to move the entire train up and across to clear the tracks. You then have to justify why you've done something so complex when it would be quicker, cheaper, simpler, and less maintenance to build parallel tracks.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Under usual circumstances only a single rail is required, having the train fitted with a solution to the problem allows the rapid and cheap extension of the rail network. If there are few enough trains relative to the amount of track it could be deemed cheaper.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
$begingroup$
You can't
Well you can, but it's going to take a few days. First you're going to need to get the infrastructure in place.
A train weighs between 1500 and 6000tons. I'm assuming this is a passenger train rather than a cargo train which could weigh nearly 100,000 tons.
We're going to need cranes in place able to lift at least 250tons just to move the engine out of the way. Such things do exist as they're part of the breakdown and derailment recovery processes but they're not exactly common, it may take a day or two just to get them into place.
You also need to make sure there's a safe and stable surface to put your engine onto that isn't the tracks. It still weighs up to 250tons, so you can't just put it down on unprepared ground and preparing ground for that sort of load takes time.
I'm sure you can see where this is going. There's no quick and safe way to remove a train from the tracks.
Accidental derailment also damages the tracks often over long distances, a general theme is that it takes a week to ten days to recover and repair after a relatively minor incident.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Could there be a way of modifying the track or train wheel morphology to allow the train to be moved quicker? The thought occurs since one would at least need to clear the flange from the rail.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
15 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye, the flange is only a couple of inches, the engineering of train wheels is beautiful in its simplicity. The issue is simply the sheer weight of what you're trying to move in a safe manner.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
15 hours ago
$begingroup$
Could there be a way of constructing the locomotive and carriages to 'eject' everything but the actual frame off the track and onto a deployed surface to distribute weight before having the frame lifted off? I could imagine that could speed up the process.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye, let's say you build the tracks on a wide base so there's suitably prepared ground either side of the tracks, you then build all your trains with side struts like a crane, these can be extended and used to move the entire train up and across to clear the tracks. You then have to justify why you've done something so complex when it would be quicker, cheaper, simpler, and less maintenance to build parallel tracks.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Under usual circumstances only a single rail is required, having the train fitted with a solution to the problem allows the rapid and cheap extension of the rail network. If there are few enough trains relative to the amount of track it could be deemed cheaper.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
$begingroup$
You can't
Well you can, but it's going to take a few days. First you're going to need to get the infrastructure in place.
A train weighs between 1500 and 6000tons. I'm assuming this is a passenger train rather than a cargo train which could weigh nearly 100,000 tons.
We're going to need cranes in place able to lift at least 250tons just to move the engine out of the way. Such things do exist as they're part of the breakdown and derailment recovery processes but they're not exactly common, it may take a day or two just to get them into place.
You also need to make sure there's a safe and stable surface to put your engine onto that isn't the tracks. It still weighs up to 250tons, so you can't just put it down on unprepared ground and preparing ground for that sort of load takes time.
I'm sure you can see where this is going. There's no quick and safe way to remove a train from the tracks.
Accidental derailment also damages the tracks often over long distances, a general theme is that it takes a week to ten days to recover and repair after a relatively minor incident.
$endgroup$
You can't
Well you can, but it's going to take a few days. First you're going to need to get the infrastructure in place.
A train weighs between 1500 and 6000tons. I'm assuming this is a passenger train rather than a cargo train which could weigh nearly 100,000 tons.
We're going to need cranes in place able to lift at least 250tons just to move the engine out of the way. Such things do exist as they're part of the breakdown and derailment recovery processes but they're not exactly common, it may take a day or two just to get them into place.
You also need to make sure there's a safe and stable surface to put your engine onto that isn't the tracks. It still weighs up to 250tons, so you can't just put it down on unprepared ground and preparing ground for that sort of load takes time.
I'm sure you can see where this is going. There's no quick and safe way to remove a train from the tracks.
Accidental derailment also damages the tracks often over long distances, a general theme is that it takes a week to ten days to recover and repair after a relatively minor incident.
edited 16 hours ago
answered 16 hours ago
SeparatrixSeparatrix
84.7k31196329
84.7k31196329
$begingroup$
Could there be a way of modifying the track or train wheel morphology to allow the train to be moved quicker? The thought occurs since one would at least need to clear the flange from the rail.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
15 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye, the flange is only a couple of inches, the engineering of train wheels is beautiful in its simplicity. The issue is simply the sheer weight of what you're trying to move in a safe manner.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
15 hours ago
$begingroup$
Could there be a way of constructing the locomotive and carriages to 'eject' everything but the actual frame off the track and onto a deployed surface to distribute weight before having the frame lifted off? I could imagine that could speed up the process.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye, let's say you build the tracks on a wide base so there's suitably prepared ground either side of the tracks, you then build all your trains with side struts like a crane, these can be extended and used to move the entire train up and across to clear the tracks. You then have to justify why you've done something so complex when it would be quicker, cheaper, simpler, and less maintenance to build parallel tracks.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Under usual circumstances only a single rail is required, having the train fitted with a solution to the problem allows the rapid and cheap extension of the rail network. If there are few enough trains relative to the amount of track it could be deemed cheaper.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
$begingroup$
Could there be a way of modifying the track or train wheel morphology to allow the train to be moved quicker? The thought occurs since one would at least need to clear the flange from the rail.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
15 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye, the flange is only a couple of inches, the engineering of train wheels is beautiful in its simplicity. The issue is simply the sheer weight of what you're trying to move in a safe manner.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
15 hours ago
$begingroup$
Could there be a way of constructing the locomotive and carriages to 'eject' everything but the actual frame off the track and onto a deployed surface to distribute weight before having the frame lifted off? I could imagine that could speed up the process.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye, let's say you build the tracks on a wide base so there's suitably prepared ground either side of the tracks, you then build all your trains with side struts like a crane, these can be extended and used to move the entire train up and across to clear the tracks. You then have to justify why you've done something so complex when it would be quicker, cheaper, simpler, and less maintenance to build parallel tracks.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Under usual circumstances only a single rail is required, having the train fitted with a solution to the problem allows the rapid and cheap extension of the rail network. If there are few enough trains relative to the amount of track it could be deemed cheaper.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Could there be a way of modifying the track or train wheel morphology to allow the train to be moved quicker? The thought occurs since one would at least need to clear the flange from the rail.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
15 hours ago
$begingroup$
Could there be a way of modifying the track or train wheel morphology to allow the train to be moved quicker? The thought occurs since one would at least need to clear the flange from the rail.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
15 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye, the flange is only a couple of inches, the engineering of train wheels is beautiful in its simplicity. The issue is simply the sheer weight of what you're trying to move in a safe manner.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
15 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye, the flange is only a couple of inches, the engineering of train wheels is beautiful in its simplicity. The issue is simply the sheer weight of what you're trying to move in a safe manner.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
15 hours ago
$begingroup$
Could there be a way of constructing the locomotive and carriages to 'eject' everything but the actual frame off the track and onto a deployed surface to distribute weight before having the frame lifted off? I could imagine that could speed up the process.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Could there be a way of constructing the locomotive and carriages to 'eject' everything but the actual frame off the track and onto a deployed surface to distribute weight before having the frame lifted off? I could imagine that could speed up the process.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye, let's say you build the tracks on a wide base so there's suitably prepared ground either side of the tracks, you then build all your trains with side struts like a crane, these can be extended and used to move the entire train up and across to clear the tracks. You then have to justify why you've done something so complex when it would be quicker, cheaper, simpler, and less maintenance to build parallel tracks.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye, let's say you build the tracks on a wide base so there's suitably prepared ground either side of the tracks, you then build all your trains with side struts like a crane, these can be extended and used to move the entire train up and across to clear the tracks. You then have to justify why you've done something so complex when it would be quicker, cheaper, simpler, and less maintenance to build parallel tracks.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Under usual circumstances only a single rail is required, having the train fitted with a solution to the problem allows the rapid and cheap extension of the rail network. If there are few enough trains relative to the amount of track it could be deemed cheaper.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Under usual circumstances only a single rail is required, having the train fitted with a solution to the problem allows the rapid and cheap extension of the rail network. If there are few enough trains relative to the amount of track it could be deemed cheaper.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
$begingroup$
Two trains become one.
On the track there is a train heading in one direction at 100 km/h and a second train heading towards it at 200 km/h.
You do not specify the distance between them. If there is some distance there is time for this maneuver.
Slow train slows down, stops, goes into reverse.
Previously slow train accelerates, in reverse, until it is going almost 200 km/h.
Fast train will slowly close the distance. When the two trains are very close, they are linked. This is not something routinely done with fast moving trains but is done all the time with slow moving trains. It does not seem outrageous; relative to one another the trains are barely moving, or even not moving. It is akin to refuelling a plane in flight except easier because the trains are on the same track.
You now have one fast train, going the specified direction at the specified speed. The fast train did not have to break stride. The slow train did not leave the tracks. You did not have to build anything new.
The neat thing about trains is that the size of the train is fluid - it can be longer or shorter according to need, and trains can be merged and split.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
You could even trasfer things from one side of the train to the other and have the other basically detach and you have now the slow train again. Lovely solution and reminds me of the replacing a ship part by part paradox :)
$endgroup$
– Hakaishin
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hakaishin - I like that very much, and would like it even more if I were a passenger on the slow train.
$endgroup$
– Willk
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
A related but likely simpler solution: the train stops, then accelerates in the opposite direction to 201km/h. Sort out this snafu after the trains reach the destination.
$endgroup$
– Cort Ammon
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@CortAmmon - “WORK? Why, cert’nly it would work, like rats a-fighting. But it’s too blame’ simple; there ain’t nothing TO it. What’s the good of a plan that ain’t no more trouble than that? It’s as mild as goose-milk. Why, Huck, it wouldn’t make no more talk than breaking into a soap factory.” Tom Sawyer, from Huckleberry Finn.
$endgroup$
– Willk
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Two trains become one.
On the track there is a train heading in one direction at 100 km/h and a second train heading towards it at 200 km/h.
You do not specify the distance between them. If there is some distance there is time for this maneuver.
Slow train slows down, stops, goes into reverse.
Previously slow train accelerates, in reverse, until it is going almost 200 km/h.
Fast train will slowly close the distance. When the two trains are very close, they are linked. This is not something routinely done with fast moving trains but is done all the time with slow moving trains. It does not seem outrageous; relative to one another the trains are barely moving, or even not moving. It is akin to refuelling a plane in flight except easier because the trains are on the same track.
You now have one fast train, going the specified direction at the specified speed. The fast train did not have to break stride. The slow train did not leave the tracks. You did not have to build anything new.
The neat thing about trains is that the size of the train is fluid - it can be longer or shorter according to need, and trains can be merged and split.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
You could even trasfer things from one side of the train to the other and have the other basically detach and you have now the slow train again. Lovely solution and reminds me of the replacing a ship part by part paradox :)
$endgroup$
– Hakaishin
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hakaishin - I like that very much, and would like it even more if I were a passenger on the slow train.
$endgroup$
– Willk
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
A related but likely simpler solution: the train stops, then accelerates in the opposite direction to 201km/h. Sort out this snafu after the trains reach the destination.
$endgroup$
– Cort Ammon
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@CortAmmon - “WORK? Why, cert’nly it would work, like rats a-fighting. But it’s too blame’ simple; there ain’t nothing TO it. What’s the good of a plan that ain’t no more trouble than that? It’s as mild as goose-milk. Why, Huck, it wouldn’t make no more talk than breaking into a soap factory.” Tom Sawyer, from Huckleberry Finn.
$endgroup$
– Willk
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Two trains become one.
On the track there is a train heading in one direction at 100 km/h and a second train heading towards it at 200 km/h.
You do not specify the distance between them. If there is some distance there is time for this maneuver.
Slow train slows down, stops, goes into reverse.
Previously slow train accelerates, in reverse, until it is going almost 200 km/h.
Fast train will slowly close the distance. When the two trains are very close, they are linked. This is not something routinely done with fast moving trains but is done all the time with slow moving trains. It does not seem outrageous; relative to one another the trains are barely moving, or even not moving. It is akin to refuelling a plane in flight except easier because the trains are on the same track.
You now have one fast train, going the specified direction at the specified speed. The fast train did not have to break stride. The slow train did not leave the tracks. You did not have to build anything new.
The neat thing about trains is that the size of the train is fluid - it can be longer or shorter according to need, and trains can be merged and split.
$endgroup$
Two trains become one.
On the track there is a train heading in one direction at 100 km/h and a second train heading towards it at 200 km/h.
You do not specify the distance between them. If there is some distance there is time for this maneuver.
Slow train slows down, stops, goes into reverse.
Previously slow train accelerates, in reverse, until it is going almost 200 km/h.
Fast train will slowly close the distance. When the two trains are very close, they are linked. This is not something routinely done with fast moving trains but is done all the time with slow moving trains. It does not seem outrageous; relative to one another the trains are barely moving, or even not moving. It is akin to refuelling a plane in flight except easier because the trains are on the same track.
You now have one fast train, going the specified direction at the specified speed. The fast train did not have to break stride. The slow train did not leave the tracks. You did not have to build anything new.
The neat thing about trains is that the size of the train is fluid - it can be longer or shorter according to need, and trains can be merged and split.
edited 9 hours ago
A Lambent Eye
1,653732
1,653732
answered 12 hours ago
WillkWillk
115k27217480
115k27217480
$begingroup$
You could even trasfer things from one side of the train to the other and have the other basically detach and you have now the slow train again. Lovely solution and reminds me of the replacing a ship part by part paradox :)
$endgroup$
– Hakaishin
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hakaishin - I like that very much, and would like it even more if I were a passenger on the slow train.
$endgroup$
– Willk
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
A related but likely simpler solution: the train stops, then accelerates in the opposite direction to 201km/h. Sort out this snafu after the trains reach the destination.
$endgroup$
– Cort Ammon
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@CortAmmon - “WORK? Why, cert’nly it would work, like rats a-fighting. But it’s too blame’ simple; there ain’t nothing TO it. What’s the good of a plan that ain’t no more trouble than that? It’s as mild as goose-milk. Why, Huck, it wouldn’t make no more talk than breaking into a soap factory.” Tom Sawyer, from Huckleberry Finn.
$endgroup$
– Willk
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You could even trasfer things from one side of the train to the other and have the other basically detach and you have now the slow train again. Lovely solution and reminds me of the replacing a ship part by part paradox :)
$endgroup$
– Hakaishin
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hakaishin - I like that very much, and would like it even more if I were a passenger on the slow train.
$endgroup$
– Willk
7 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
A related but likely simpler solution: the train stops, then accelerates in the opposite direction to 201km/h. Sort out this snafu after the trains reach the destination.
$endgroup$
– Cort Ammon
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@CortAmmon - “WORK? Why, cert’nly it would work, like rats a-fighting. But it’s too blame’ simple; there ain’t nothing TO it. What’s the good of a plan that ain’t no more trouble than that? It’s as mild as goose-milk. Why, Huck, it wouldn’t make no more talk than breaking into a soap factory.” Tom Sawyer, from Huckleberry Finn.
$endgroup$
– Willk
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
You could even trasfer things from one side of the train to the other and have the other basically detach and you have now the slow train again. Lovely solution and reminds me of the replacing a ship part by part paradox :)
$endgroup$
– Hakaishin
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
You could even trasfer things from one side of the train to the other and have the other basically detach and you have now the slow train again. Lovely solution and reminds me of the replacing a ship part by part paradox :)
$endgroup$
– Hakaishin
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hakaishin - I like that very much, and would like it even more if I were a passenger on the slow train.
$endgroup$
– Willk
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Hakaishin - I like that very much, and would like it even more if I were a passenger on the slow train.
$endgroup$
– Willk
7 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
A related but likely simpler solution: the train stops, then accelerates in the opposite direction to 201km/h. Sort out this snafu after the trains reach the destination.
$endgroup$
– Cort Ammon
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
A related but likely simpler solution: the train stops, then accelerates in the opposite direction to 201km/h. Sort out this snafu after the trains reach the destination.
$endgroup$
– Cort Ammon
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@CortAmmon - “WORK? Why, cert’nly it would work, like rats a-fighting. But it’s too blame’ simple; there ain’t nothing TO it. What’s the good of a plan that ain’t no more trouble than that? It’s as mild as goose-milk. Why, Huck, it wouldn’t make no more talk than breaking into a soap factory.” Tom Sawyer, from Huckleberry Finn.
$endgroup$
– Willk
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@CortAmmon - “WORK? Why, cert’nly it would work, like rats a-fighting. But it’s too blame’ simple; there ain’t nothing TO it. What’s the good of a plan that ain’t no more trouble than that? It’s as mild as goose-milk. Why, Huck, it wouldn’t make no more talk than breaking into a soap factory.” Tom Sawyer, from Huckleberry Finn.
$endgroup$
– Willk
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I have an idea which I'll try to put into writing but it might not be obvious what I'm driving at. I actually had a couple of thoughts on this but one may be more sensible than the other.
Up and Over
My initial thought was that one of the trains, probably the 200 km/h one as it would already likely be a streamliner, would be designed in such a way that it's front is like a ramp and it has rails built into the ramp which run along the track in front of it. These rails continue over the carriage roof and the rear of the train look like the front. The oncoming train could then be forced to run over the top of the fast train. This does however require that the train that goes over is able to climb an unrealistic gradient although oncoming speed may assist. It also assumed that there are no overhead electricity cables but that the train above is able to continue to proceed without a "third rail" either.
Shall we dance?
As an alternative to the up and over method, I came up with something that could actually work. On a traditional track, you'd place the 100 km/h train in a siding and have it wait until the 200 km/h train had passed. I realise that this can't work because it requires you to know where the siding would need to be.
However, when you consider what a train requires, it is essentially rails on which to run. Now, imagine that each train is carrying some sort of short section of rail at it's front which is angled from the right to the left of the track. When the two trains come close enough, these angled tracks collide and are forced into the rail bed. This causes the left-hand wheel set of each train to jump off the left hand track and the right hand wheel set is forced onto the left hand rail. This effectively derails both trains simultaneously causing a massive accident. However, if the tops of each train were designed to carry some sort of rail / tube on top of the train with some sort of interlocking arm, the weight of each train would be carried by the other.
Each train would hold the other up, a little like a spinning ballerina is supported by one of two feet and by a dance partner at the top of their arm, outstretched above their heads. Both locomotives would progress along the same piece of track but using just one rail each, each locomotive offset and supported by the other.
Once they had passed each other, an assembly at the rear of each train could "re-rail" the wheel sets back to their original location which would effectively by a mirror of the assembly at the front of the train.
Hopefully this makes some sense. If not, I could possibly try to sketch out how it would look.
Edit Added sketch
Edit 2 - "Budge Over" trains
You could potentially re-design the trains to allow the "shall we dance" method to be a little less severe. Instead of forcing the trains to jump to the opposite track, design the trains to have an angled cab with looks like a triangle when viewed from above. Along one side of the train, have interlocking "rails" which would interface with each other, shoving the oncoming train onto the side of the opposing carriage.
Redesign the wheel sets so that they had one fixed set of wheels and one "sprung" set which were floating so the trains could continue to run one wheelset on a single rail but the other would float in free air under the train.
This would effectively allow trains to "slither" past each other. Whilst this refinement to the design probably makes the solution a little more realistic, it does remove some of the grand drama that the "Shall we dance" method has.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
What an elegant and adrenaline-filled solution! A sketch would nevertheless be appreciated, especially since I am unsure as to how the re-railing would work. There also may be difficulties if the trains have two vastly different lengths.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'll knock a sketch together. I did wonder if different length trains could be catered for by the mechanism on the roof having some sort of extending retractable pole / cable that is only released at the point the longer train is back on both rails. Perhaps it could spring back at high speed like a massive version of one of those retractile steel tape measured being released?
$endgroup$
– Steve Matthews
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thank you! I suppose strength could be a issue then. Could one in theory have one still on the tracks as the 'plow' and have the other hang alongside it before reconnecting to the tracks? That way it could always be guaranteed that the 'flying' segment has a similar weight to the segment it is passing while the rest of the weight rests stably on the tracks pre- and succeeding the 'plow'.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'd have visions of the mechanism on the top of the train initially looking a little like a jousting knight on top of a horse. You'd effectively be using the weight and momentum of each of the trains to be the counterweight of the other.
$endgroup$
– Steve Matthews
14 hours ago
13
$begingroup$
It's brilliant, it could never work, but who cares.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
14 hours ago
|
show 13 more comments
$begingroup$
I have an idea which I'll try to put into writing but it might not be obvious what I'm driving at. I actually had a couple of thoughts on this but one may be more sensible than the other.
Up and Over
My initial thought was that one of the trains, probably the 200 km/h one as it would already likely be a streamliner, would be designed in such a way that it's front is like a ramp and it has rails built into the ramp which run along the track in front of it. These rails continue over the carriage roof and the rear of the train look like the front. The oncoming train could then be forced to run over the top of the fast train. This does however require that the train that goes over is able to climb an unrealistic gradient although oncoming speed may assist. It also assumed that there are no overhead electricity cables but that the train above is able to continue to proceed without a "third rail" either.
Shall we dance?
As an alternative to the up and over method, I came up with something that could actually work. On a traditional track, you'd place the 100 km/h train in a siding and have it wait until the 200 km/h train had passed. I realise that this can't work because it requires you to know where the siding would need to be.
However, when you consider what a train requires, it is essentially rails on which to run. Now, imagine that each train is carrying some sort of short section of rail at it's front which is angled from the right to the left of the track. When the two trains come close enough, these angled tracks collide and are forced into the rail bed. This causes the left-hand wheel set of each train to jump off the left hand track and the right hand wheel set is forced onto the left hand rail. This effectively derails both trains simultaneously causing a massive accident. However, if the tops of each train were designed to carry some sort of rail / tube on top of the train with some sort of interlocking arm, the weight of each train would be carried by the other.
Each train would hold the other up, a little like a spinning ballerina is supported by one of two feet and by a dance partner at the top of their arm, outstretched above their heads. Both locomotives would progress along the same piece of track but using just one rail each, each locomotive offset and supported by the other.
Once they had passed each other, an assembly at the rear of each train could "re-rail" the wheel sets back to their original location which would effectively by a mirror of the assembly at the front of the train.
Hopefully this makes some sense. If not, I could possibly try to sketch out how it would look.
Edit Added sketch
Edit 2 - "Budge Over" trains
You could potentially re-design the trains to allow the "shall we dance" method to be a little less severe. Instead of forcing the trains to jump to the opposite track, design the trains to have an angled cab with looks like a triangle when viewed from above. Along one side of the train, have interlocking "rails" which would interface with each other, shoving the oncoming train onto the side of the opposing carriage.
Redesign the wheel sets so that they had one fixed set of wheels and one "sprung" set which were floating so the trains could continue to run one wheelset on a single rail but the other would float in free air under the train.
This would effectively allow trains to "slither" past each other. Whilst this refinement to the design probably makes the solution a little more realistic, it does remove some of the grand drama that the "Shall we dance" method has.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
What an elegant and adrenaline-filled solution! A sketch would nevertheless be appreciated, especially since I am unsure as to how the re-railing would work. There also may be difficulties if the trains have two vastly different lengths.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'll knock a sketch together. I did wonder if different length trains could be catered for by the mechanism on the roof having some sort of extending retractable pole / cable that is only released at the point the longer train is back on both rails. Perhaps it could spring back at high speed like a massive version of one of those retractile steel tape measured being released?
$endgroup$
– Steve Matthews
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thank you! I suppose strength could be a issue then. Could one in theory have one still on the tracks as the 'plow' and have the other hang alongside it before reconnecting to the tracks? That way it could always be guaranteed that the 'flying' segment has a similar weight to the segment it is passing while the rest of the weight rests stably on the tracks pre- and succeeding the 'plow'.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'd have visions of the mechanism on the top of the train initially looking a little like a jousting knight on top of a horse. You'd effectively be using the weight and momentum of each of the trains to be the counterweight of the other.
$endgroup$
– Steve Matthews
14 hours ago
13
$begingroup$
It's brilliant, it could never work, but who cares.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
14 hours ago
|
show 13 more comments
$begingroup$
I have an idea which I'll try to put into writing but it might not be obvious what I'm driving at. I actually had a couple of thoughts on this but one may be more sensible than the other.
Up and Over
My initial thought was that one of the trains, probably the 200 km/h one as it would already likely be a streamliner, would be designed in such a way that it's front is like a ramp and it has rails built into the ramp which run along the track in front of it. These rails continue over the carriage roof and the rear of the train look like the front. The oncoming train could then be forced to run over the top of the fast train. This does however require that the train that goes over is able to climb an unrealistic gradient although oncoming speed may assist. It also assumed that there are no overhead electricity cables but that the train above is able to continue to proceed without a "third rail" either.
Shall we dance?
As an alternative to the up and over method, I came up with something that could actually work. On a traditional track, you'd place the 100 km/h train in a siding and have it wait until the 200 km/h train had passed. I realise that this can't work because it requires you to know where the siding would need to be.
However, when you consider what a train requires, it is essentially rails on which to run. Now, imagine that each train is carrying some sort of short section of rail at it's front which is angled from the right to the left of the track. When the two trains come close enough, these angled tracks collide and are forced into the rail bed. This causes the left-hand wheel set of each train to jump off the left hand track and the right hand wheel set is forced onto the left hand rail. This effectively derails both trains simultaneously causing a massive accident. However, if the tops of each train were designed to carry some sort of rail / tube on top of the train with some sort of interlocking arm, the weight of each train would be carried by the other.
Each train would hold the other up, a little like a spinning ballerina is supported by one of two feet and by a dance partner at the top of their arm, outstretched above their heads. Both locomotives would progress along the same piece of track but using just one rail each, each locomotive offset and supported by the other.
Once they had passed each other, an assembly at the rear of each train could "re-rail" the wheel sets back to their original location which would effectively by a mirror of the assembly at the front of the train.
Hopefully this makes some sense. If not, I could possibly try to sketch out how it would look.
Edit Added sketch
Edit 2 - "Budge Over" trains
You could potentially re-design the trains to allow the "shall we dance" method to be a little less severe. Instead of forcing the trains to jump to the opposite track, design the trains to have an angled cab with looks like a triangle when viewed from above. Along one side of the train, have interlocking "rails" which would interface with each other, shoving the oncoming train onto the side of the opposing carriage.
Redesign the wheel sets so that they had one fixed set of wheels and one "sprung" set which were floating so the trains could continue to run one wheelset on a single rail but the other would float in free air under the train.
This would effectively allow trains to "slither" past each other. Whilst this refinement to the design probably makes the solution a little more realistic, it does remove some of the grand drama that the "Shall we dance" method has.
$endgroup$
I have an idea which I'll try to put into writing but it might not be obvious what I'm driving at. I actually had a couple of thoughts on this but one may be more sensible than the other.
Up and Over
My initial thought was that one of the trains, probably the 200 km/h one as it would already likely be a streamliner, would be designed in such a way that it's front is like a ramp and it has rails built into the ramp which run along the track in front of it. These rails continue over the carriage roof and the rear of the train look like the front. The oncoming train could then be forced to run over the top of the fast train. This does however require that the train that goes over is able to climb an unrealistic gradient although oncoming speed may assist. It also assumed that there are no overhead electricity cables but that the train above is able to continue to proceed without a "third rail" either.
Shall we dance?
As an alternative to the up and over method, I came up with something that could actually work. On a traditional track, you'd place the 100 km/h train in a siding and have it wait until the 200 km/h train had passed. I realise that this can't work because it requires you to know where the siding would need to be.
However, when you consider what a train requires, it is essentially rails on which to run. Now, imagine that each train is carrying some sort of short section of rail at it's front which is angled from the right to the left of the track. When the two trains come close enough, these angled tracks collide and are forced into the rail bed. This causes the left-hand wheel set of each train to jump off the left hand track and the right hand wheel set is forced onto the left hand rail. This effectively derails both trains simultaneously causing a massive accident. However, if the tops of each train were designed to carry some sort of rail / tube on top of the train with some sort of interlocking arm, the weight of each train would be carried by the other.
Each train would hold the other up, a little like a spinning ballerina is supported by one of two feet and by a dance partner at the top of their arm, outstretched above their heads. Both locomotives would progress along the same piece of track but using just one rail each, each locomotive offset and supported by the other.
Once they had passed each other, an assembly at the rear of each train could "re-rail" the wheel sets back to their original location which would effectively by a mirror of the assembly at the front of the train.
Hopefully this makes some sense. If not, I could possibly try to sketch out how it would look.
Edit Added sketch
Edit 2 - "Budge Over" trains
You could potentially re-design the trains to allow the "shall we dance" method to be a little less severe. Instead of forcing the trains to jump to the opposite track, design the trains to have an angled cab with looks like a triangle when viewed from above. Along one side of the train, have interlocking "rails" which would interface with each other, shoving the oncoming train onto the side of the opposing carriage.
Redesign the wheel sets so that they had one fixed set of wheels and one "sprung" set which were floating so the trains could continue to run one wheelset on a single rail but the other would float in free air under the train.
This would effectively allow trains to "slither" past each other. Whilst this refinement to the design probably makes the solution a little more realistic, it does remove some of the grand drama that the "Shall we dance" method has.
edited 11 hours ago
answered 14 hours ago
Steve MatthewsSteve Matthews
32915
32915
1
$begingroup$
What an elegant and adrenaline-filled solution! A sketch would nevertheless be appreciated, especially since I am unsure as to how the re-railing would work. There also may be difficulties if the trains have two vastly different lengths.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'll knock a sketch together. I did wonder if different length trains could be catered for by the mechanism on the roof having some sort of extending retractable pole / cable that is only released at the point the longer train is back on both rails. Perhaps it could spring back at high speed like a massive version of one of those retractile steel tape measured being released?
$endgroup$
– Steve Matthews
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thank you! I suppose strength could be a issue then. Could one in theory have one still on the tracks as the 'plow' and have the other hang alongside it before reconnecting to the tracks? That way it could always be guaranteed that the 'flying' segment has a similar weight to the segment it is passing while the rest of the weight rests stably on the tracks pre- and succeeding the 'plow'.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'd have visions of the mechanism on the top of the train initially looking a little like a jousting knight on top of a horse. You'd effectively be using the weight and momentum of each of the trains to be the counterweight of the other.
$endgroup$
– Steve Matthews
14 hours ago
13
$begingroup$
It's brilliant, it could never work, but who cares.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
14 hours ago
|
show 13 more comments
1
$begingroup$
What an elegant and adrenaline-filled solution! A sketch would nevertheless be appreciated, especially since I am unsure as to how the re-railing would work. There also may be difficulties if the trains have two vastly different lengths.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'll knock a sketch together. I did wonder if different length trains could be catered for by the mechanism on the roof having some sort of extending retractable pole / cable that is only released at the point the longer train is back on both rails. Perhaps it could spring back at high speed like a massive version of one of those retractile steel tape measured being released?
$endgroup$
– Steve Matthews
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thank you! I suppose strength could be a issue then. Could one in theory have one still on the tracks as the 'plow' and have the other hang alongside it before reconnecting to the tracks? That way it could always be guaranteed that the 'flying' segment has a similar weight to the segment it is passing while the rest of the weight rests stably on the tracks pre- and succeeding the 'plow'.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'd have visions of the mechanism on the top of the train initially looking a little like a jousting knight on top of a horse. You'd effectively be using the weight and momentum of each of the trains to be the counterweight of the other.
$endgroup$
– Steve Matthews
14 hours ago
13
$begingroup$
It's brilliant, it could never work, but who cares.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
14 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
What an elegant and adrenaline-filled solution! A sketch would nevertheless be appreciated, especially since I am unsure as to how the re-railing would work. There also may be difficulties if the trains have two vastly different lengths.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
What an elegant and adrenaline-filled solution! A sketch would nevertheless be appreciated, especially since I am unsure as to how the re-railing would work. There also may be difficulties if the trains have two vastly different lengths.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'll knock a sketch together. I did wonder if different length trains could be catered for by the mechanism on the roof having some sort of extending retractable pole / cable that is only released at the point the longer train is back on both rails. Perhaps it could spring back at high speed like a massive version of one of those retractile steel tape measured being released?
$endgroup$
– Steve Matthews
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'll knock a sketch together. I did wonder if different length trains could be catered for by the mechanism on the roof having some sort of extending retractable pole / cable that is only released at the point the longer train is back on both rails. Perhaps it could spring back at high speed like a massive version of one of those retractile steel tape measured being released?
$endgroup$
– Steve Matthews
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thank you! I suppose strength could be a issue then. Could one in theory have one still on the tracks as the 'plow' and have the other hang alongside it before reconnecting to the tracks? That way it could always be guaranteed that the 'flying' segment has a similar weight to the segment it is passing while the rest of the weight rests stably on the tracks pre- and succeeding the 'plow'.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thank you! I suppose strength could be a issue then. Could one in theory have one still on the tracks as the 'plow' and have the other hang alongside it before reconnecting to the tracks? That way it could always be guaranteed that the 'flying' segment has a similar weight to the segment it is passing while the rest of the weight rests stably on the tracks pre- and succeeding the 'plow'.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'd have visions of the mechanism on the top of the train initially looking a little like a jousting knight on top of a horse. You'd effectively be using the weight and momentum of each of the trains to be the counterweight of the other.
$endgroup$
– Steve Matthews
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'd have visions of the mechanism on the top of the train initially looking a little like a jousting knight on top of a horse. You'd effectively be using the weight and momentum of each of the trains to be the counterweight of the other.
$endgroup$
– Steve Matthews
14 hours ago
13
13
$begingroup$
It's brilliant, it could never work, but who cares.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
It's brilliant, it could never work, but who cares.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
14 hours ago
|
show 13 more comments
$begingroup$
Jackscrews
The slow train will come to a complete stop. At both ends of each of its cars, two outrigger hydraulic- or screw jacks (each as tall as the train) are extended outwards to beyond the fast train's width, and after this downwards to beyond the height of the fast train, lifting up the entire slow train. Effectively, this forms a tunnel underneath the slow train through which the fast train can travel.
After the fast train has passed, the train will be lowered exactly to its original position. If necessary, minor corrections can be performed laterally by varying the outrigger's position.
For those who believe one cannot lift a heavy train with compact jack screws or hydraulic jacks, look no further than self driving cranes.
Apparently, a prototype already exists:
(both images from Wikimedia)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
A good suggestion! A link would be appreciated.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye I assume you mean the second picture? I'm not exactly sure what Google terms I used but it's from some Italian wikipedia article: it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sollevatrice_idraulica
$endgroup$
– Sanchises
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thank you, that already provides a little more information. commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/…
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
11 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Jackscrews
The slow train will come to a complete stop. At both ends of each of its cars, two outrigger hydraulic- or screw jacks (each as tall as the train) are extended outwards to beyond the fast train's width, and after this downwards to beyond the height of the fast train, lifting up the entire slow train. Effectively, this forms a tunnel underneath the slow train through which the fast train can travel.
After the fast train has passed, the train will be lowered exactly to its original position. If necessary, minor corrections can be performed laterally by varying the outrigger's position.
For those who believe one cannot lift a heavy train with compact jack screws or hydraulic jacks, look no further than self driving cranes.
Apparently, a prototype already exists:
(both images from Wikimedia)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
A good suggestion! A link would be appreciated.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye I assume you mean the second picture? I'm not exactly sure what Google terms I used but it's from some Italian wikipedia article: it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sollevatrice_idraulica
$endgroup$
– Sanchises
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thank you, that already provides a little more information. commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/…
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
11 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Jackscrews
The slow train will come to a complete stop. At both ends of each of its cars, two outrigger hydraulic- or screw jacks (each as tall as the train) are extended outwards to beyond the fast train's width, and after this downwards to beyond the height of the fast train, lifting up the entire slow train. Effectively, this forms a tunnel underneath the slow train through which the fast train can travel.
After the fast train has passed, the train will be lowered exactly to its original position. If necessary, minor corrections can be performed laterally by varying the outrigger's position.
For those who believe one cannot lift a heavy train with compact jack screws or hydraulic jacks, look no further than self driving cranes.
Apparently, a prototype already exists:
(both images from Wikimedia)
$endgroup$
Jackscrews
The slow train will come to a complete stop. At both ends of each of its cars, two outrigger hydraulic- or screw jacks (each as tall as the train) are extended outwards to beyond the fast train's width, and after this downwards to beyond the height of the fast train, lifting up the entire slow train. Effectively, this forms a tunnel underneath the slow train through which the fast train can travel.
After the fast train has passed, the train will be lowered exactly to its original position. If necessary, minor corrections can be performed laterally by varying the outrigger's position.
For those who believe one cannot lift a heavy train with compact jack screws or hydraulic jacks, look no further than self driving cranes.
Apparently, a prototype already exists:
(both images from Wikimedia)
answered 11 hours ago
SanchisesSanchises
98459
98459
$begingroup$
A good suggestion! A link would be appreciated.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye I assume you mean the second picture? I'm not exactly sure what Google terms I used but it's from some Italian wikipedia article: it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sollevatrice_idraulica
$endgroup$
– Sanchises
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thank you, that already provides a little more information. commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/…
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
11 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A good suggestion! A link would be appreciated.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye I assume you mean the second picture? I'm not exactly sure what Google terms I used but it's from some Italian wikipedia article: it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sollevatrice_idraulica
$endgroup$
– Sanchises
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thank you, that already provides a little more information. commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/…
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
A good suggestion! A link would be appreciated.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
A good suggestion! A link would be appreciated.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye I assume you mean the second picture? I'm not exactly sure what Google terms I used but it's from some Italian wikipedia article: it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sollevatrice_idraulica
$endgroup$
– Sanchises
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye I assume you mean the second picture? I'm not exactly sure what Google terms I used but it's from some Italian wikipedia article: it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sollevatrice_idraulica
$endgroup$
– Sanchises
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thank you, that already provides a little more information. commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/…
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thank you, that already provides a little more information. commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/…
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
11 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Use road wheels on the slower train. Build it out of railcars like these:
When the faster train approaches, just stop, raise your rail wheels, and drive off the tracks.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate on how that could help? I imagine it being rather difficult to get on and off the tracks without making use of a road crossing.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
12 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye They make plastic ramps exactly for that purpose. The problem with this solution though is that logically, if there was space to take the slow train off rail, you might as well install a siding there.
$endgroup$
– user71659
11 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye : The Unimog has amazing off-road abilities, and it can be equipped with rail wheels. Unfortunately I couldn't find a video showing both. But the very same vehicle which you see climbing in that video has variants equipped with rail wheels.
$endgroup$
– vsz
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
How would this work with carriages?
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye : Does the question require only using existing railcars without any modifications? If not, then equip your carriages with road wheels too... or just couple several Unimogs together to form your train. Or just make a custom designed vehicle, based on this idea. I only showed that there are already vehicles which can travel on rail and also have good off-road capabilities.
$endgroup$
– vsz
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Use road wheels on the slower train. Build it out of railcars like these:
When the faster train approaches, just stop, raise your rail wheels, and drive off the tracks.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate on how that could help? I imagine it being rather difficult to get on and off the tracks without making use of a road crossing.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
12 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye They make plastic ramps exactly for that purpose. The problem with this solution though is that logically, if there was space to take the slow train off rail, you might as well install a siding there.
$endgroup$
– user71659
11 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye : The Unimog has amazing off-road abilities, and it can be equipped with rail wheels. Unfortunately I couldn't find a video showing both. But the very same vehicle which you see climbing in that video has variants equipped with rail wheels.
$endgroup$
– vsz
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
How would this work with carriages?
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye : Does the question require only using existing railcars without any modifications? If not, then equip your carriages with road wheels too... or just couple several Unimogs together to form your train. Or just make a custom designed vehicle, based on this idea. I only showed that there are already vehicles which can travel on rail and also have good off-road capabilities.
$endgroup$
– vsz
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Use road wheels on the slower train. Build it out of railcars like these:
When the faster train approaches, just stop, raise your rail wheels, and drive off the tracks.
$endgroup$
Use road wheels on the slower train. Build it out of railcars like these:
When the faster train approaches, just stop, raise your rail wheels, and drive off the tracks.
answered 12 hours ago
vszvsz
7,00742548
7,00742548
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate on how that could help? I imagine it being rather difficult to get on and off the tracks without making use of a road crossing.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
12 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye They make plastic ramps exactly for that purpose. The problem with this solution though is that logically, if there was space to take the slow train off rail, you might as well install a siding there.
$endgroup$
– user71659
11 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye : The Unimog has amazing off-road abilities, and it can be equipped with rail wheels. Unfortunately I couldn't find a video showing both. But the very same vehicle which you see climbing in that video has variants equipped with rail wheels.
$endgroup$
– vsz
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
How would this work with carriages?
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye : Does the question require only using existing railcars without any modifications? If not, then equip your carriages with road wheels too... or just couple several Unimogs together to form your train. Or just make a custom designed vehicle, based on this idea. I only showed that there are already vehicles which can travel on rail and also have good off-road capabilities.
$endgroup$
– vsz
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate on how that could help? I imagine it being rather difficult to get on and off the tracks without making use of a road crossing.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
12 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye They make plastic ramps exactly for that purpose. The problem with this solution though is that logically, if there was space to take the slow train off rail, you might as well install a siding there.
$endgroup$
– user71659
11 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye : The Unimog has amazing off-road abilities, and it can be equipped with rail wheels. Unfortunately I couldn't find a video showing both. But the very same vehicle which you see climbing in that video has variants equipped with rail wheels.
$endgroup$
– vsz
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
How would this work with carriages?
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye : Does the question require only using existing railcars without any modifications? If not, then equip your carriages with road wheels too... or just couple several Unimogs together to form your train. Or just make a custom designed vehicle, based on this idea. I only showed that there are already vehicles which can travel on rail and also have good off-road capabilities.
$endgroup$
– vsz
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate on how that could help? I imagine it being rather difficult to get on and off the tracks without making use of a road crossing.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate on how that could help? I imagine it being rather difficult to get on and off the tracks without making use of a road crossing.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
12 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye They make plastic ramps exactly for that purpose. The problem with this solution though is that logically, if there was space to take the slow train off rail, you might as well install a siding there.
$endgroup$
– user71659
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye They make plastic ramps exactly for that purpose. The problem with this solution though is that logically, if there was space to take the slow train off rail, you might as well install a siding there.
$endgroup$
– user71659
11 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye : The Unimog has amazing off-road abilities, and it can be equipped with rail wheels. Unfortunately I couldn't find a video showing both. But the very same vehicle which you see climbing in that video has variants equipped with rail wheels.
$endgroup$
– vsz
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye : The Unimog has amazing off-road abilities, and it can be equipped with rail wheels. Unfortunately I couldn't find a video showing both. But the very same vehicle which you see climbing in that video has variants equipped with rail wheels.
$endgroup$
– vsz
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
How would this work with carriages?
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
How would this work with carriages?
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye : Does the question require only using existing railcars without any modifications? If not, then equip your carriages with road wheels too... or just couple several Unimogs together to form your train. Or just make a custom designed vehicle, based on this idea. I only showed that there are already vehicles which can travel on rail and also have good off-road capabilities.
$endgroup$
– vsz
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye : Does the question require only using existing railcars without any modifications? If not, then equip your carriages with road wheels too... or just couple several Unimogs together to form your train. Or just make a custom designed vehicle, based on this idea. I only showed that there are already vehicles which can travel on rail and also have good off-road capabilities.
$endgroup$
– vsz
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
On the slow train by each set of wheels also put a set of 3 wheels at 90 degrees to the main ones, each on an extending pistons.
When it needs to let the fast train pass it stops and lowers the wheels on pistons, then drives sideways off the track (it needs 3 so it can lift one to pass over the rails and still have 2 on the ground).
Once the fast train has passed it reverses the process to drive back onto the train and recenter itself then lifts the extra wheels and continues.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
On the slow train by each set of wheels also put a set of 3 wheels at 90 degrees to the main ones, each on an extending pistons.
When it needs to let the fast train pass it stops and lowers the wheels on pistons, then drives sideways off the track (it needs 3 so it can lift one to pass over the rails and still have 2 on the ground).
Once the fast train has passed it reverses the process to drive back onto the train and recenter itself then lifts the extra wheels and continues.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
On the slow train by each set of wheels also put a set of 3 wheels at 90 degrees to the main ones, each on an extending pistons.
When it needs to let the fast train pass it stops and lowers the wheels on pistons, then drives sideways off the track (it needs 3 so it can lift one to pass over the rails and still have 2 on the ground).
Once the fast train has passed it reverses the process to drive back onto the train and recenter itself then lifts the extra wheels and continues.
$endgroup$
On the slow train by each set of wheels also put a set of 3 wheels at 90 degrees to the main ones, each on an extending pistons.
When it needs to let the fast train pass it stops and lowers the wheels on pistons, then drives sideways off the track (it needs 3 so it can lift one to pass over the rails and still have 2 on the ground).
Once the fast train has passed it reverses the process to drive back onto the train and recenter itself then lifts the extra wheels and continues.
answered 12 hours ago
Tim B♦Tim B
63.4k24178299
63.4k24178299
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hold the regular train at the last switch or junction
The question says:
Answers adjusting the infrastructure or train construction before the encounter are acceptable, so long as there are no fixed bypasses or signals.
Rail roads always have sidings and some form of communications specifically to keep trains from arguing over right-of-way while at mutual approach, better phrased as "colliding". Therefore, by construction of the question, at each end of this long section of single track there is a switch for double tracking, siding, or some other place where a train could wait.
A high priority train in the absence of traffic signalling should run on a timetable. The rail traffic control point at each end of the long section of track will have the latest timetable for when the high priority train is scheduled to enter and to leave that section. They will therefore hold all oncoming traffic until they observe that the high priority train has departed the section.
The rail road company would probably make a major effort to improve signalling between the control points, so that they can communicate when a train enters the section and when it leaves. This might be beyond the scope of your work, however.
This infrastructure isn't only for the benefit of the high priority train -- this is for the benefit of all trains, and maintenance as well: Any track work or blockage has to be handled without additional trains making the situation more blocked.
Edit based on comment:
Even for an unscheduled express or emergency train -- especially for an emergency train -- the rail road will have some form of communication specifically to prevent unintended cases of head-on collisions.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Well yes, but no. The priority transport could, for example, be an emergency service. In this case it would not make sense to have the train bond to a timetable.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Good point, I hadn't thought of that. And still, there WILL be some way to communicate ahead, "HOLD ALL TRAINS".
$endgroup$
– Codes with Hammer
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Quite so, but simply using signals does not answer the question wholly. One example of this would be when there is a train already on such a stretch of track as the priority train is dispersed, the entry of the priority train onto the stretch being imminent (for example, the depot is on the nearest junction to the isolated line).
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
It seems to me that a civilization capable of building a single rail block 75km long fully rated for trains traveling 200 kph could also figure out the logistics to clear the track when the super-express needs to use it.
$endgroup$
– Codes with Hammer
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is precisely what we are trying to figure out.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hold the regular train at the last switch or junction
The question says:
Answers adjusting the infrastructure or train construction before the encounter are acceptable, so long as there are no fixed bypasses or signals.
Rail roads always have sidings and some form of communications specifically to keep trains from arguing over right-of-way while at mutual approach, better phrased as "colliding". Therefore, by construction of the question, at each end of this long section of single track there is a switch for double tracking, siding, or some other place where a train could wait.
A high priority train in the absence of traffic signalling should run on a timetable. The rail traffic control point at each end of the long section of track will have the latest timetable for when the high priority train is scheduled to enter and to leave that section. They will therefore hold all oncoming traffic until they observe that the high priority train has departed the section.
The rail road company would probably make a major effort to improve signalling between the control points, so that they can communicate when a train enters the section and when it leaves. This might be beyond the scope of your work, however.
This infrastructure isn't only for the benefit of the high priority train -- this is for the benefit of all trains, and maintenance as well: Any track work or blockage has to be handled without additional trains making the situation more blocked.
Edit based on comment:
Even for an unscheduled express or emergency train -- especially for an emergency train -- the rail road will have some form of communication specifically to prevent unintended cases of head-on collisions.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Well yes, but no. The priority transport could, for example, be an emergency service. In this case it would not make sense to have the train bond to a timetable.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Good point, I hadn't thought of that. And still, there WILL be some way to communicate ahead, "HOLD ALL TRAINS".
$endgroup$
– Codes with Hammer
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Quite so, but simply using signals does not answer the question wholly. One example of this would be when there is a train already on such a stretch of track as the priority train is dispersed, the entry of the priority train onto the stretch being imminent (for example, the depot is on the nearest junction to the isolated line).
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
It seems to me that a civilization capable of building a single rail block 75km long fully rated for trains traveling 200 kph could also figure out the logistics to clear the track when the super-express needs to use it.
$endgroup$
– Codes with Hammer
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is precisely what we are trying to figure out.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hold the regular train at the last switch or junction
The question says:
Answers adjusting the infrastructure or train construction before the encounter are acceptable, so long as there are no fixed bypasses or signals.
Rail roads always have sidings and some form of communications specifically to keep trains from arguing over right-of-way while at mutual approach, better phrased as "colliding". Therefore, by construction of the question, at each end of this long section of single track there is a switch for double tracking, siding, or some other place where a train could wait.
A high priority train in the absence of traffic signalling should run on a timetable. The rail traffic control point at each end of the long section of track will have the latest timetable for when the high priority train is scheduled to enter and to leave that section. They will therefore hold all oncoming traffic until they observe that the high priority train has departed the section.
The rail road company would probably make a major effort to improve signalling between the control points, so that they can communicate when a train enters the section and when it leaves. This might be beyond the scope of your work, however.
This infrastructure isn't only for the benefit of the high priority train -- this is for the benefit of all trains, and maintenance as well: Any track work or blockage has to be handled without additional trains making the situation more blocked.
Edit based on comment:
Even for an unscheduled express or emergency train -- especially for an emergency train -- the rail road will have some form of communication specifically to prevent unintended cases of head-on collisions.
$endgroup$
Hold the regular train at the last switch or junction
The question says:
Answers adjusting the infrastructure or train construction before the encounter are acceptable, so long as there are no fixed bypasses or signals.
Rail roads always have sidings and some form of communications specifically to keep trains from arguing over right-of-way while at mutual approach, better phrased as "colliding". Therefore, by construction of the question, at each end of this long section of single track there is a switch for double tracking, siding, or some other place where a train could wait.
A high priority train in the absence of traffic signalling should run on a timetable. The rail traffic control point at each end of the long section of track will have the latest timetable for when the high priority train is scheduled to enter and to leave that section. They will therefore hold all oncoming traffic until they observe that the high priority train has departed the section.
The rail road company would probably make a major effort to improve signalling between the control points, so that they can communicate when a train enters the section and when it leaves. This might be beyond the scope of your work, however.
This infrastructure isn't only for the benefit of the high priority train -- this is for the benefit of all trains, and maintenance as well: Any track work or blockage has to be handled without additional trains making the situation more blocked.
Edit based on comment:
Even for an unscheduled express or emergency train -- especially for an emergency train -- the rail road will have some form of communication specifically to prevent unintended cases of head-on collisions.
edited 10 hours ago
answered 11 hours ago
Codes with HammerCodes with Hammer
1215
1215
1
$begingroup$
Well yes, but no. The priority transport could, for example, be an emergency service. In this case it would not make sense to have the train bond to a timetable.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Good point, I hadn't thought of that. And still, there WILL be some way to communicate ahead, "HOLD ALL TRAINS".
$endgroup$
– Codes with Hammer
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Quite so, but simply using signals does not answer the question wholly. One example of this would be when there is a train already on such a stretch of track as the priority train is dispersed, the entry of the priority train onto the stretch being imminent (for example, the depot is on the nearest junction to the isolated line).
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
It seems to me that a civilization capable of building a single rail block 75km long fully rated for trains traveling 200 kph could also figure out the logistics to clear the track when the super-express needs to use it.
$endgroup$
– Codes with Hammer
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is precisely what we are trying to figure out.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Well yes, but no. The priority transport could, for example, be an emergency service. In this case it would not make sense to have the train bond to a timetable.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Good point, I hadn't thought of that. And still, there WILL be some way to communicate ahead, "HOLD ALL TRAINS".
$endgroup$
– Codes with Hammer
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Quite so, but simply using signals does not answer the question wholly. One example of this would be when there is a train already on such a stretch of track as the priority train is dispersed, the entry of the priority train onto the stretch being imminent (for example, the depot is on the nearest junction to the isolated line).
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
It seems to me that a civilization capable of building a single rail block 75km long fully rated for trains traveling 200 kph could also figure out the logistics to clear the track when the super-express needs to use it.
$endgroup$
– Codes with Hammer
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is precisely what we are trying to figure out.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Well yes, but no. The priority transport could, for example, be an emergency service. In this case it would not make sense to have the train bond to a timetable.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Well yes, but no. The priority transport could, for example, be an emergency service. In this case it would not make sense to have the train bond to a timetable.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Good point, I hadn't thought of that. And still, there WILL be some way to communicate ahead, "HOLD ALL TRAINS".
$endgroup$
– Codes with Hammer
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Good point, I hadn't thought of that. And still, there WILL be some way to communicate ahead, "HOLD ALL TRAINS".
$endgroup$
– Codes with Hammer
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Quite so, but simply using signals does not answer the question wholly. One example of this would be when there is a train already on such a stretch of track as the priority train is dispersed, the entry of the priority train onto the stretch being imminent (for example, the depot is on the nearest junction to the isolated line).
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Quite so, but simply using signals does not answer the question wholly. One example of this would be when there is a train already on such a stretch of track as the priority train is dispersed, the entry of the priority train onto the stretch being imminent (for example, the depot is on the nearest junction to the isolated line).
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
It seems to me that a civilization capable of building a single rail block 75km long fully rated for trains traveling 200 kph could also figure out the logistics to clear the track when the super-express needs to use it.
$endgroup$
– Codes with Hammer
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
It seems to me that a civilization capable of building a single rail block 75km long fully rated for trains traveling 200 kph could also figure out the logistics to clear the track when the super-express needs to use it.
$endgroup$
– Codes with Hammer
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is precisely what we are trying to figure out.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is precisely what we are trying to figure out.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Use a large Outrigger Suspension system
If you google "Outrigger on crane" you will find many examples of retractable rigging on smaller vehicles to prevent them from tipping over, usually cranes. The trains in your world could all be fitted with a variant of this system that is designed to hydraulically lift the cars of the train high enough to allow the other one to pass beneath.
The contact points would all be well outside of the track and it would not matter much the location at which the train stops since each contact point can be raised to a variable height. The best part is that it would only take a couple minutes to fully suspend the train. Also, since all trains could theoretically be outfitted with something like this, shifting priorities in the train schedule would have little impact.
Furthermore, the use of this technology could be justified by explaining that the cost of implementing something like this on all trains is cheaper that laying a completely separate parallel track.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Use a large Outrigger Suspension system
If you google "Outrigger on crane" you will find many examples of retractable rigging on smaller vehicles to prevent them from tipping over, usually cranes. The trains in your world could all be fitted with a variant of this system that is designed to hydraulically lift the cars of the train high enough to allow the other one to pass beneath.
The contact points would all be well outside of the track and it would not matter much the location at which the train stops since each contact point can be raised to a variable height. The best part is that it would only take a couple minutes to fully suspend the train. Also, since all trains could theoretically be outfitted with something like this, shifting priorities in the train schedule would have little impact.
Furthermore, the use of this technology could be justified by explaining that the cost of implementing something like this on all trains is cheaper that laying a completely separate parallel track.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Use a large Outrigger Suspension system
If you google "Outrigger on crane" you will find many examples of retractable rigging on smaller vehicles to prevent them from tipping over, usually cranes. The trains in your world could all be fitted with a variant of this system that is designed to hydraulically lift the cars of the train high enough to allow the other one to pass beneath.
The contact points would all be well outside of the track and it would not matter much the location at which the train stops since each contact point can be raised to a variable height. The best part is that it would only take a couple minutes to fully suspend the train. Also, since all trains could theoretically be outfitted with something like this, shifting priorities in the train schedule would have little impact.
Furthermore, the use of this technology could be justified by explaining that the cost of implementing something like this on all trains is cheaper that laying a completely separate parallel track.
$endgroup$
Use a large Outrigger Suspension system
If you google "Outrigger on crane" you will find many examples of retractable rigging on smaller vehicles to prevent them from tipping over, usually cranes. The trains in your world could all be fitted with a variant of this system that is designed to hydraulically lift the cars of the train high enough to allow the other one to pass beneath.
The contact points would all be well outside of the track and it would not matter much the location at which the train stops since each contact point can be raised to a variable height. The best part is that it would only take a couple minutes to fully suspend the train. Also, since all trains could theoretically be outfitted with something like this, shifting priorities in the train schedule would have little impact.
Furthermore, the use of this technology could be justified by explaining that the cost of implementing something like this on all trains is cheaper that laying a completely separate parallel track.
answered 9 hours ago
Beninja2Beninja2
1316
1316
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Depending on your technology level, all train tracks could be raised off the ground and have rails above and below. All East/North bound trains run on the top rails. All West/South bound trains travel hanging on the bottom side of the tracks. Inside the cars are tubes so that the ceiling can always remain up. Every 10 kilometers or so, you could have loops that could move a train from one track to another, so a faster train could overtake and pass a slower train going the same direction.
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Depending on your technology level, all train tracks could be raised off the ground and have rails above and below. All East/North bound trains run on the top rails. All West/South bound trains travel hanging on the bottom side of the tracks. Inside the cars are tubes so that the ceiling can always remain up. Every 10 kilometers or so, you could have loops that could move a train from one track to another, so a faster train could overtake and pass a slower train going the same direction.
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Depending on your technology level, all train tracks could be raised off the ground and have rails above and below. All East/North bound trains run on the top rails. All West/South bound trains travel hanging on the bottom side of the tracks. Inside the cars are tubes so that the ceiling can always remain up. Every 10 kilometers or so, you could have loops that could move a train from one track to another, so a faster train could overtake and pass a slower train going the same direction.
New contributor
$endgroup$
Depending on your technology level, all train tracks could be raised off the ground and have rails above and below. All East/North bound trains run on the top rails. All West/South bound trains travel hanging on the bottom side of the tracks. Inside the cars are tubes so that the ceiling can always remain up. Every 10 kilometers or so, you could have loops that could move a train from one track to another, so a faster train could overtake and pass a slower train going the same direction.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 7 hours ago
bcr666bcr666
1112
1112
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The most realistic way to do it fast, if you don't have the infrastructure in place, is to:
- Stop the less prioritary train;
- Use a crane to move it off the rails;
- Once the priority train has passed, use the crane to move the less prioritary train back onto the rails.
Cranes are awesomely strong. Just go to Google and do a dearch image for 'crane 100 tons'. You'll see that a lot.of relatively small models can lift that much. Also remember that even if your train weights much more than that, you only have to lift one wagon at a time.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
A 100ton crane can lift up to 18 tons and you probably need to lift well over 200tons to move the engine. The numbers for commercial and industrial vehicles are a bit weird until you get used to them. A simple example is that a 3.5 ton van has a cargo capacity of around 1.5 tons because the other 2 tons is the van itself.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
15 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Separatrix "A 100ton crane can lift up to 18 tons" I'm not sure where you're getting that information from. For example, the Terex AC100/4 is described as a "100 ton crane" and it can lift 100 tons (see spec sheet, p9) at zero radius. More realistically, it can lift 80 tons at a radius of 3m. However, I doubt that one could lift even an 80t locomotive (perfectly reasonable for a European passenger locomotive) off the tracks in just 15 minutes: that takes a lot of preparation.
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
10 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@DavidRicherby I was reading data sheets from one of the manufacturers along with generic search results.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Separatrix Ah. Perhaps the data was for lifting at some "standard" radius or something?
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@DavidRicherby potentially, since the lifting capacity will drop off rapidly once outside the footprint of the crane
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The most realistic way to do it fast, if you don't have the infrastructure in place, is to:
- Stop the less prioritary train;
- Use a crane to move it off the rails;
- Once the priority train has passed, use the crane to move the less prioritary train back onto the rails.
Cranes are awesomely strong. Just go to Google and do a dearch image for 'crane 100 tons'. You'll see that a lot.of relatively small models can lift that much. Also remember that even if your train weights much more than that, you only have to lift one wagon at a time.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
A 100ton crane can lift up to 18 tons and you probably need to lift well over 200tons to move the engine. The numbers for commercial and industrial vehicles are a bit weird until you get used to them. A simple example is that a 3.5 ton van has a cargo capacity of around 1.5 tons because the other 2 tons is the van itself.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
15 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Separatrix "A 100ton crane can lift up to 18 tons" I'm not sure where you're getting that information from. For example, the Terex AC100/4 is described as a "100 ton crane" and it can lift 100 tons (see spec sheet, p9) at zero radius. More realistically, it can lift 80 tons at a radius of 3m. However, I doubt that one could lift even an 80t locomotive (perfectly reasonable for a European passenger locomotive) off the tracks in just 15 minutes: that takes a lot of preparation.
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
10 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@DavidRicherby I was reading data sheets from one of the manufacturers along with generic search results.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Separatrix Ah. Perhaps the data was for lifting at some "standard" radius or something?
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@DavidRicherby potentially, since the lifting capacity will drop off rapidly once outside the footprint of the crane
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The most realistic way to do it fast, if you don't have the infrastructure in place, is to:
- Stop the less prioritary train;
- Use a crane to move it off the rails;
- Once the priority train has passed, use the crane to move the less prioritary train back onto the rails.
Cranes are awesomely strong. Just go to Google and do a dearch image for 'crane 100 tons'. You'll see that a lot.of relatively small models can lift that much. Also remember that even if your train weights much more than that, you only have to lift one wagon at a time.
$endgroup$
The most realistic way to do it fast, if you don't have the infrastructure in place, is to:
- Stop the less prioritary train;
- Use a crane to move it off the rails;
- Once the priority train has passed, use the crane to move the less prioritary train back onto the rails.
Cranes are awesomely strong. Just go to Google and do a dearch image for 'crane 100 tons'. You'll see that a lot.of relatively small models can lift that much. Also remember that even if your train weights much more than that, you only have to lift one wagon at a time.
answered 16 hours ago
RenanRenan
51.3k15119257
51.3k15119257
1
$begingroup$
A 100ton crane can lift up to 18 tons and you probably need to lift well over 200tons to move the engine. The numbers for commercial and industrial vehicles are a bit weird until you get used to them. A simple example is that a 3.5 ton van has a cargo capacity of around 1.5 tons because the other 2 tons is the van itself.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
15 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Separatrix "A 100ton crane can lift up to 18 tons" I'm not sure where you're getting that information from. For example, the Terex AC100/4 is described as a "100 ton crane" and it can lift 100 tons (see spec sheet, p9) at zero radius. More realistically, it can lift 80 tons at a radius of 3m. However, I doubt that one could lift even an 80t locomotive (perfectly reasonable for a European passenger locomotive) off the tracks in just 15 minutes: that takes a lot of preparation.
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
10 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@DavidRicherby I was reading data sheets from one of the manufacturers along with generic search results.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Separatrix Ah. Perhaps the data was for lifting at some "standard" radius or something?
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@DavidRicherby potentially, since the lifting capacity will drop off rapidly once outside the footprint of the crane
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
9 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
A 100ton crane can lift up to 18 tons and you probably need to lift well over 200tons to move the engine. The numbers for commercial and industrial vehicles are a bit weird until you get used to them. A simple example is that a 3.5 ton van has a cargo capacity of around 1.5 tons because the other 2 tons is the van itself.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
15 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Separatrix "A 100ton crane can lift up to 18 tons" I'm not sure where you're getting that information from. For example, the Terex AC100/4 is described as a "100 ton crane" and it can lift 100 tons (see spec sheet, p9) at zero radius. More realistically, it can lift 80 tons at a radius of 3m. However, I doubt that one could lift even an 80t locomotive (perfectly reasonable for a European passenger locomotive) off the tracks in just 15 minutes: that takes a lot of preparation.
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– David Richerby
10 hours ago
1
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@DavidRicherby I was reading data sheets from one of the manufacturers along with generic search results.
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– Separatrix
9 hours ago
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@Separatrix Ah. Perhaps the data was for lifting at some "standard" radius or something?
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– David Richerby
9 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@DavidRicherby potentially, since the lifting capacity will drop off rapidly once outside the footprint of the crane
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– Separatrix
9 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
A 100ton crane can lift up to 18 tons and you probably need to lift well over 200tons to move the engine. The numbers for commercial and industrial vehicles are a bit weird until you get used to them. A simple example is that a 3.5 ton van has a cargo capacity of around 1.5 tons because the other 2 tons is the van itself.
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– Separatrix
15 hours ago
$begingroup$
A 100ton crane can lift up to 18 tons and you probably need to lift well over 200tons to move the engine. The numbers for commercial and industrial vehicles are a bit weird until you get used to them. A simple example is that a 3.5 ton van has a cargo capacity of around 1.5 tons because the other 2 tons is the van itself.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
15 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@Separatrix "A 100ton crane can lift up to 18 tons" I'm not sure where you're getting that information from. For example, the Terex AC100/4 is described as a "100 ton crane" and it can lift 100 tons (see spec sheet, p9) at zero radius. More realistically, it can lift 80 tons at a radius of 3m. However, I doubt that one could lift even an 80t locomotive (perfectly reasonable for a European passenger locomotive) off the tracks in just 15 minutes: that takes a lot of preparation.
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Separatrix "A 100ton crane can lift up to 18 tons" I'm not sure where you're getting that information from. For example, the Terex AC100/4 is described as a "100 ton crane" and it can lift 100 tons (see spec sheet, p9) at zero radius. More realistically, it can lift 80 tons at a radius of 3m. However, I doubt that one could lift even an 80t locomotive (perfectly reasonable for a European passenger locomotive) off the tracks in just 15 minutes: that takes a lot of preparation.
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
10 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@DavidRicherby I was reading data sheets from one of the manufacturers along with generic search results.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DavidRicherby I was reading data sheets from one of the manufacturers along with generic search results.
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Separatrix Ah. Perhaps the data was for lifting at some "standard" radius or something?
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Separatrix Ah. Perhaps the data was for lifting at some "standard" radius or something?
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
9 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@DavidRicherby potentially, since the lifting capacity will drop off rapidly once outside the footprint of the crane
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– Separatrix
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
@DavidRicherby potentially, since the lifting capacity will drop off rapidly once outside the footprint of the crane
$endgroup$
– Separatrix
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
former train stops and reverses. Fast train catches up. Passengers swap over to opposite train. Fast train decouples, stops, reverses direction. the former train is now the fast train, and the passengers never slowed down.
New contributor
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2
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While a sensible suggestion, this answer only works if the trains are both passenger trains and have the same speed and power. Were either of them goods trains, or the slower train not capable of reaching the required speeds, the solution would be insufficient.
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– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
former train stops and reverses. Fast train catches up. Passengers swap over to opposite train. Fast train decouples, stops, reverses direction. the former train is now the fast train, and the passengers never slowed down.
New contributor
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
While a sensible suggestion, this answer only works if the trains are both passenger trains and have the same speed and power. Were either of them goods trains, or the slower train not capable of reaching the required speeds, the solution would be insufficient.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
former train stops and reverses. Fast train catches up. Passengers swap over to opposite train. Fast train decouples, stops, reverses direction. the former train is now the fast train, and the passengers never slowed down.
New contributor
$endgroup$
former train stops and reverses. Fast train catches up. Passengers swap over to opposite train. Fast train decouples, stops, reverses direction. the former train is now the fast train, and the passengers never slowed down.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 10 hours ago
guestguest
1
1
New contributor
New contributor
2
$begingroup$
While a sensible suggestion, this answer only works if the trains are both passenger trains and have the same speed and power. Were either of them goods trains, or the slower train not capable of reaching the required speeds, the solution would be insufficient.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
While a sensible suggestion, this answer only works if the trains are both passenger trains and have the same speed and power. Were either of them goods trains, or the slower train not capable of reaching the required speeds, the solution would be insufficient.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
While a sensible suggestion, this answer only works if the trains are both passenger trains and have the same speed and power. Were either of them goods trains, or the slower train not capable of reaching the required speeds, the solution would be insufficient.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
While a sensible suggestion, this answer only works if the trains are both passenger trains and have the same speed and power. Were either of them goods trains, or the slower train not capable of reaching the required speeds, the solution would be insufficient.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
An impractical but possible 2nd answer.
The fast train has lifts at both ends and tracks on the roof.
The slow train stops, reverses, and allows fast train to catch up.
Fast train now uses front lift to raise carriage, roll it across the top of itself and put it back down with the opposite lift.
Does this with all carriages and engine then the 2 seperate and the slow train stops, reverses, continues.
New contributor
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Is this a more compact version of a ramp, as per Cyrus' suggestion?
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– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
yep I guess it is a variation on the same theme
$endgroup$
– guest
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Difference between this and a ramp is that it's (slightly) more feasible. Trains don't do ramps, but they can do lifts. And doing this carriage by carriage works, and takes advantage of the modular construction of trains. If max speed of slow train is 100km/h, this is better than the "just couple both trains together" option, as it allows the fast train to speed up again after they meet, minimizing time lost.
$endgroup$
– Dewi Morgan
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
An impractical but possible 2nd answer.
The fast train has lifts at both ends and tracks on the roof.
The slow train stops, reverses, and allows fast train to catch up.
Fast train now uses front lift to raise carriage, roll it across the top of itself and put it back down with the opposite lift.
Does this with all carriages and engine then the 2 seperate and the slow train stops, reverses, continues.
New contributor
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Is this a more compact version of a ramp, as per Cyrus' suggestion?
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
yep I guess it is a variation on the same theme
$endgroup$
– guest
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Difference between this and a ramp is that it's (slightly) more feasible. Trains don't do ramps, but they can do lifts. And doing this carriage by carriage works, and takes advantage of the modular construction of trains. If max speed of slow train is 100km/h, this is better than the "just couple both trains together" option, as it allows the fast train to speed up again after they meet, minimizing time lost.
$endgroup$
– Dewi Morgan
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
An impractical but possible 2nd answer.
The fast train has lifts at both ends and tracks on the roof.
The slow train stops, reverses, and allows fast train to catch up.
Fast train now uses front lift to raise carriage, roll it across the top of itself and put it back down with the opposite lift.
Does this with all carriages and engine then the 2 seperate and the slow train stops, reverses, continues.
New contributor
$endgroup$
An impractical but possible 2nd answer.
The fast train has lifts at both ends and tracks on the roof.
The slow train stops, reverses, and allows fast train to catch up.
Fast train now uses front lift to raise carriage, roll it across the top of itself and put it back down with the opposite lift.
Does this with all carriages and engine then the 2 seperate and the slow train stops, reverses, continues.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 10 hours ago
guestguest
1
1
New contributor
New contributor
$begingroup$
Is this a more compact version of a ramp, as per Cyrus' suggestion?
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
yep I guess it is a variation on the same theme
$endgroup$
– guest
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Difference between this and a ramp is that it's (slightly) more feasible. Trains don't do ramps, but they can do lifts. And doing this carriage by carriage works, and takes advantage of the modular construction of trains. If max speed of slow train is 100km/h, this is better than the "just couple both trains together" option, as it allows the fast train to speed up again after they meet, minimizing time lost.
$endgroup$
– Dewi Morgan
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Is this a more compact version of a ramp, as per Cyrus' suggestion?
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
yep I guess it is a variation on the same theme
$endgroup$
– guest
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Difference between this and a ramp is that it's (slightly) more feasible. Trains don't do ramps, but they can do lifts. And doing this carriage by carriage works, and takes advantage of the modular construction of trains. If max speed of slow train is 100km/h, this is better than the "just couple both trains together" option, as it allows the fast train to speed up again after they meet, minimizing time lost.
$endgroup$
– Dewi Morgan
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Is this a more compact version of a ramp, as per Cyrus' suggestion?
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Is this a more compact version of a ramp, as per Cyrus' suggestion?
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
yep I guess it is a variation on the same theme
$endgroup$
– guest
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
yep I guess it is a variation on the same theme
$endgroup$
– guest
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Difference between this and a ramp is that it's (slightly) more feasible. Trains don't do ramps, but they can do lifts. And doing this carriage by carriage works, and takes advantage of the modular construction of trains. If max speed of slow train is 100km/h, this is better than the "just couple both trains together" option, as it allows the fast train to speed up again after they meet, minimizing time lost.
$endgroup$
– Dewi Morgan
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Difference between this and a ramp is that it's (slightly) more feasible. Trains don't do ramps, but they can do lifts. And doing this carriage by carriage works, and takes advantage of the modular construction of trains. If max speed of slow train is 100km/h, this is better than the "just couple both trains together" option, as it allows the fast train to speed up again after they meet, minimizing time lost.
$endgroup$
– Dewi Morgan
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your only real hope is a track gang who can move fast.
They find a place along the track near the starting position of the slow train, where a bolted joint exists that's staggered by just a few feet between the two rails. It should not be a special joint such as an insulated joint. If it's not there, get a rail saw and rail drill in advance, and create a joint. The crew stages out there with a bulldozer and a number of semiloads of track panels and a crane, and they lay down enough temporary track to easily fit the slow train.
Long before it arrives, they unbolt the main track, shove one main about 5 feet to the left, the other 5 feet to the right (the staggering decides which goes which way), grade the subgrade to level, and drop in the temporary track to meet it. Throw 2 bolts in the joint bars, no more. Have the slow train crawl into this temporary track, and about 100' past the joint.
Now you have 15 minutes to reverse. A bulldozer is already chained to the temporary track, and six other bulldozer or big SUV winches are tied to the main track, ready to pull the segments back where they belong. Yank the 2 bolts, pull the tracks over, and a few workers tighten the 6 mainline bolts while many other workers with gas powered jackhammers tamp the main track back to level. ZOOM, the other train tears through.
This is achievable with a crew that knows what it's doing. Railroad track is "lego" like that.
Rinse, wash, repeat to back the first train out onto the main again, reassemble the main, and the first train is on its way.
Of course you know, nobody goes 200kph without some sort of automatic signal systems to prevent collisions. There'll never be any danger of collision, because the signal system will stop the trains if a train is in the way or the track is severed.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your only real hope is a track gang who can move fast.
They find a place along the track near the starting position of the slow train, where a bolted joint exists that's staggered by just a few feet between the two rails. It should not be a special joint such as an insulated joint. If it's not there, get a rail saw and rail drill in advance, and create a joint. The crew stages out there with a bulldozer and a number of semiloads of track panels and a crane, and they lay down enough temporary track to easily fit the slow train.
Long before it arrives, they unbolt the main track, shove one main about 5 feet to the left, the other 5 feet to the right (the staggering decides which goes which way), grade the subgrade to level, and drop in the temporary track to meet it. Throw 2 bolts in the joint bars, no more. Have the slow train crawl into this temporary track, and about 100' past the joint.
Now you have 15 minutes to reverse. A bulldozer is already chained to the temporary track, and six other bulldozer or big SUV winches are tied to the main track, ready to pull the segments back where they belong. Yank the 2 bolts, pull the tracks over, and a few workers tighten the 6 mainline bolts while many other workers with gas powered jackhammers tamp the main track back to level. ZOOM, the other train tears through.
This is achievable with a crew that knows what it's doing. Railroad track is "lego" like that.
Rinse, wash, repeat to back the first train out onto the main again, reassemble the main, and the first train is on its way.
Of course you know, nobody goes 200kph without some sort of automatic signal systems to prevent collisions. There'll never be any danger of collision, because the signal system will stop the trains if a train is in the way or the track is severed.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your only real hope is a track gang who can move fast.
They find a place along the track near the starting position of the slow train, where a bolted joint exists that's staggered by just a few feet between the two rails. It should not be a special joint such as an insulated joint. If it's not there, get a rail saw and rail drill in advance, and create a joint. The crew stages out there with a bulldozer and a number of semiloads of track panels and a crane, and they lay down enough temporary track to easily fit the slow train.
Long before it arrives, they unbolt the main track, shove one main about 5 feet to the left, the other 5 feet to the right (the staggering decides which goes which way), grade the subgrade to level, and drop in the temporary track to meet it. Throw 2 bolts in the joint bars, no more. Have the slow train crawl into this temporary track, and about 100' past the joint.
Now you have 15 minutes to reverse. A bulldozer is already chained to the temporary track, and six other bulldozer or big SUV winches are tied to the main track, ready to pull the segments back where they belong. Yank the 2 bolts, pull the tracks over, and a few workers tighten the 6 mainline bolts while many other workers with gas powered jackhammers tamp the main track back to level. ZOOM, the other train tears through.
This is achievable with a crew that knows what it's doing. Railroad track is "lego" like that.
Rinse, wash, repeat to back the first train out onto the main again, reassemble the main, and the first train is on its way.
Of course you know, nobody goes 200kph without some sort of automatic signal systems to prevent collisions. There'll never be any danger of collision, because the signal system will stop the trains if a train is in the way or the track is severed.
$endgroup$
Your only real hope is a track gang who can move fast.
They find a place along the track near the starting position of the slow train, where a bolted joint exists that's staggered by just a few feet between the two rails. It should not be a special joint such as an insulated joint. If it's not there, get a rail saw and rail drill in advance, and create a joint. The crew stages out there with a bulldozer and a number of semiloads of track panels and a crane, and they lay down enough temporary track to easily fit the slow train.
Long before it arrives, they unbolt the main track, shove one main about 5 feet to the left, the other 5 feet to the right (the staggering decides which goes which way), grade the subgrade to level, and drop in the temporary track to meet it. Throw 2 bolts in the joint bars, no more. Have the slow train crawl into this temporary track, and about 100' past the joint.
Now you have 15 minutes to reverse. A bulldozer is already chained to the temporary track, and six other bulldozer or big SUV winches are tied to the main track, ready to pull the segments back where they belong. Yank the 2 bolts, pull the tracks over, and a few workers tighten the 6 mainline bolts while many other workers with gas powered jackhammers tamp the main track back to level. ZOOM, the other train tears through.
This is achievable with a crew that knows what it's doing. Railroad track is "lego" like that.
Rinse, wash, repeat to back the first train out onto the main again, reassemble the main, and the first train is on its way.
Of course you know, nobody goes 200kph without some sort of automatic signal systems to prevent collisions. There'll never be any danger of collision, because the signal system will stop the trains if a train is in the way or the track is severed.
edited 27 mins ago
answered 34 mins ago
HarperHarper
6,85411026
6,85411026
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Helicopters
Assuming money is no object--this will be expensive, and it will require precision high speed work by skilled personnel. It should result in no harm to equipment or passengers.
There are a number of models of heavy-lift helicopters out there; wikipedia has a list. Attach lifting cables, decouple the train cars, and lift them out of the way individually.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
@Aethenosity the weight objection is valid, but it would be feasible to posit a very abnormally light passenger train, or just hand wave the weight away. (This entire scenario stretches the limits of reason to begin with; most of these suggestions stretch even Hollywood physics.) It's also technically possible to use two helicopters to lift a large load, even though it's borderline insane: aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/24978/…
$endgroup$
– Adam Miller
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Aethenosity, you'd only need five Mi-26s (lift capacity: 20 metric tons) to handle most freight cars. Still outside hand-wave range.
$endgroup$
– Mark
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Helicopters
Assuming money is no object--this will be expensive, and it will require precision high speed work by skilled personnel. It should result in no harm to equipment or passengers.
There are a number of models of heavy-lift helicopters out there; wikipedia has a list. Attach lifting cables, decouple the train cars, and lift them out of the way individually.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
@Aethenosity the weight objection is valid, but it would be feasible to posit a very abnormally light passenger train, or just hand wave the weight away. (This entire scenario stretches the limits of reason to begin with; most of these suggestions stretch even Hollywood physics.) It's also technically possible to use two helicopters to lift a large load, even though it's borderline insane: aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/24978/…
$endgroup$
– Adam Miller
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Aethenosity, you'd only need five Mi-26s (lift capacity: 20 metric tons) to handle most freight cars. Still outside hand-wave range.
$endgroup$
– Mark
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Helicopters
Assuming money is no object--this will be expensive, and it will require precision high speed work by skilled personnel. It should result in no harm to equipment or passengers.
There are a number of models of heavy-lift helicopters out there; wikipedia has a list. Attach lifting cables, decouple the train cars, and lift them out of the way individually.
$endgroup$
Helicopters
Assuming money is no object--this will be expensive, and it will require precision high speed work by skilled personnel. It should result in no harm to equipment or passengers.
There are a number of models of heavy-lift helicopters out there; wikipedia has a list. Attach lifting cables, decouple the train cars, and lift them out of the way individually.
answered 12 hours ago
Adam MillerAdam Miller
1,678716
1,678716
$begingroup$
@Aethenosity the weight objection is valid, but it would be feasible to posit a very abnormally light passenger train, or just hand wave the weight away. (This entire scenario stretches the limits of reason to begin with; most of these suggestions stretch even Hollywood physics.) It's also technically possible to use two helicopters to lift a large load, even though it's borderline insane: aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/24978/…
$endgroup$
– Adam Miller
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Aethenosity, you'd only need five Mi-26s (lift capacity: 20 metric tons) to handle most freight cars. Still outside hand-wave range.
$endgroup$
– Mark
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
@Aethenosity the weight objection is valid, but it would be feasible to posit a very abnormally light passenger train, or just hand wave the weight away. (This entire scenario stretches the limits of reason to begin with; most of these suggestions stretch even Hollywood physics.) It's also technically possible to use two helicopters to lift a large load, even though it's borderline insane: aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/24978/…
$endgroup$
– Adam Miller
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Aethenosity, you'd only need five Mi-26s (lift capacity: 20 metric tons) to handle most freight cars. Still outside hand-wave range.
$endgroup$
– Mark
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Aethenosity the weight objection is valid, but it would be feasible to posit a very abnormally light passenger train, or just hand wave the weight away. (This entire scenario stretches the limits of reason to begin with; most of these suggestions stretch even Hollywood physics.) It's also technically possible to use two helicopters to lift a large load, even though it's borderline insane: aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/24978/…
$endgroup$
– Adam Miller
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Aethenosity the weight objection is valid, but it would be feasible to posit a very abnormally light passenger train, or just hand wave the weight away. (This entire scenario stretches the limits of reason to begin with; most of these suggestions stretch even Hollywood physics.) It's also technically possible to use two helicopters to lift a large load, even though it's borderline insane: aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/24978/…
$endgroup$
– Adam Miller
5 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@Aethenosity, you'd only need five Mi-26s (lift capacity: 20 metric tons) to handle most freight cars. Still outside hand-wave range.
$endgroup$
– Mark
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Aethenosity, you'd only need five Mi-26s (lift capacity: 20 metric tons) to handle most freight cars. Still outside hand-wave range.
$endgroup$
– Mark
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Catch Points
Catch Points exist explicitly for this scenario, to redirect a runaway train off a track or away from a dangerous situation without requiring it to be slowed down.
If you need a nice ad-hoc solution using no specific rail safety measures, perhaps a dead-end track-switch or branch that never went anywhere would work in place of a purpose-built catch-point.
Just remove the end-cap/bumper that blocks the track, switch the low-priority train onto that, drive straight off the end of the track and coast on solid ground.
Once the low-priority train is out of the way, switch the track back and watch the high-priority train rush past safely.
These dead-ends can be found in a lot of places, often in places where a train track has been torn up due to age or redundancy. They might be in documentation somewhere, but narratively it's the sort of information an expert on the area would have and someone who just travels the line wouldn't notice.
This approach would be great for dramatic effect.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
You managed to find the corner case I was expecting: Not a derailer, so no damage, but also not a bypass, since it doesn't rejoin. I suppose my only argument would be that they would have to be placed regularly since one may not know whether one can reach the next before the priority train is confronted.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Very true, which is why I suggested a dead end of an unfinished or partially dismantled line as being useful as an ad-hoc Catch-point. I'm particularly liking that using this would require lateral thinking and area-knowledge from any characters in your story or narrative. So it's dramatically much more satisfying than "and they used a well placed safety measure to safely derail a train"
$endgroup$
– Ruadhan
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
It is a classic point of drama in railway novels, or so I'm told...
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Catch points derail the train. Derailling a train at 100km/h is absolutely not safe for the occupants of that train. It's safer than colliding with a train going at 200km/h in the opposite direction, but you're still going to have fatalities. Specifically, running off the track will cause the front of the train to decelerate suddenly, while the back continues to run forwards and concertinas. Now you have a selection of railway carriages at 90 degrees across the track, ready for the fast train to plough into.
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
9 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Catch Points
Catch Points exist explicitly for this scenario, to redirect a runaway train off a track or away from a dangerous situation without requiring it to be slowed down.
If you need a nice ad-hoc solution using no specific rail safety measures, perhaps a dead-end track-switch or branch that never went anywhere would work in place of a purpose-built catch-point.
Just remove the end-cap/bumper that blocks the track, switch the low-priority train onto that, drive straight off the end of the track and coast on solid ground.
Once the low-priority train is out of the way, switch the track back and watch the high-priority train rush past safely.
These dead-ends can be found in a lot of places, often in places where a train track has been torn up due to age or redundancy. They might be in documentation somewhere, but narratively it's the sort of information an expert on the area would have and someone who just travels the line wouldn't notice.
This approach would be great for dramatic effect.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
You managed to find the corner case I was expecting: Not a derailer, so no damage, but also not a bypass, since it doesn't rejoin. I suppose my only argument would be that they would have to be placed regularly since one may not know whether one can reach the next before the priority train is confronted.
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Very true, which is why I suggested a dead end of an unfinished or partially dismantled line as being useful as an ad-hoc Catch-point. I'm particularly liking that using this would require lateral thinking and area-knowledge from any characters in your story or narrative. So it's dramatically much more satisfying than "and they used a well placed safety measure to safely derail a train"
$endgroup$
– Ruadhan
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
It is a classic point of drama in railway novels, or so I'm told...
$endgroup$
– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago
2
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Catch points derail the train. Derailling a train at 100km/h is absolutely not safe for the occupants of that train. It's safer than colliding with a train going at 200km/h in the opposite direction, but you're still going to have fatalities. Specifically, running off the track will cause the front of the train to decelerate suddenly, while the back continues to run forwards and concertinas. Now you have a selection of railway carriages at 90 degrees across the track, ready for the fast train to plough into.
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– David Richerby
9 hours ago
add a comment |
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Catch Points
Catch Points exist explicitly for this scenario, to redirect a runaway train off a track or away from a dangerous situation without requiring it to be slowed down.
If you need a nice ad-hoc solution using no specific rail safety measures, perhaps a dead-end track-switch or branch that never went anywhere would work in place of a purpose-built catch-point.
Just remove the end-cap/bumper that blocks the track, switch the low-priority train onto that, drive straight off the end of the track and coast on solid ground.
Once the low-priority train is out of the way, switch the track back and watch the high-priority train rush past safely.
These dead-ends can be found in a lot of places, often in places where a train track has been torn up due to age or redundancy. They might be in documentation somewhere, but narratively it's the sort of information an expert on the area would have and someone who just travels the line wouldn't notice.
This approach would be great for dramatic effect.
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Catch Points
Catch Points exist explicitly for this scenario, to redirect a runaway train off a track or away from a dangerous situation without requiring it to be slowed down.
If you need a nice ad-hoc solution using no specific rail safety measures, perhaps a dead-end track-switch or branch that never went anywhere would work in place of a purpose-built catch-point.
Just remove the end-cap/bumper that blocks the track, switch the low-priority train onto that, drive straight off the end of the track and coast on solid ground.
Once the low-priority train is out of the way, switch the track back and watch the high-priority train rush past safely.
These dead-ends can be found in a lot of places, often in places where a train track has been torn up due to age or redundancy. They might be in documentation somewhere, but narratively it's the sort of information an expert on the area would have and someone who just travels the line wouldn't notice.
This approach would be great for dramatic effect.
edited 10 hours ago
answered 10 hours ago
RuadhanRuadhan
4,6651624
4,6651624
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You managed to find the corner case I was expecting: Not a derailer, so no damage, but also not a bypass, since it doesn't rejoin. I suppose my only argument would be that they would have to be placed regularly since one may not know whether one can reach the next before the priority train is confronted.
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– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
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Very true, which is why I suggested a dead end of an unfinished or partially dismantled line as being useful as an ad-hoc Catch-point. I'm particularly liking that using this would require lateral thinking and area-knowledge from any characters in your story or narrative. So it's dramatically much more satisfying than "and they used a well placed safety measure to safely derail a train"
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– Ruadhan
10 hours ago
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It is a classic point of drama in railway novels, or so I'm told...
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– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago
2
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Catch points derail the train. Derailling a train at 100km/h is absolutely not safe for the occupants of that train. It's safer than colliding with a train going at 200km/h in the opposite direction, but you're still going to have fatalities. Specifically, running off the track will cause the front of the train to decelerate suddenly, while the back continues to run forwards and concertinas. Now you have a selection of railway carriages at 90 degrees across the track, ready for the fast train to plough into.
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– David Richerby
9 hours ago
add a comment |
1
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You managed to find the corner case I was expecting: Not a derailer, so no damage, but also not a bypass, since it doesn't rejoin. I suppose my only argument would be that they would have to be placed regularly since one may not know whether one can reach the next before the priority train is confronted.
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– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
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Very true, which is why I suggested a dead end of an unfinished or partially dismantled line as being useful as an ad-hoc Catch-point. I'm particularly liking that using this would require lateral thinking and area-knowledge from any characters in your story or narrative. So it's dramatically much more satisfying than "and they used a well placed safety measure to safely derail a train"
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– Ruadhan
10 hours ago
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It is a classic point of drama in railway novels, or so I'm told...
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– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago
2
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Catch points derail the train. Derailling a train at 100km/h is absolutely not safe for the occupants of that train. It's safer than colliding with a train going at 200km/h in the opposite direction, but you're still going to have fatalities. Specifically, running off the track will cause the front of the train to decelerate suddenly, while the back continues to run forwards and concertinas. Now you have a selection of railway carriages at 90 degrees across the track, ready for the fast train to plough into.
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– David Richerby
9 hours ago
1
1
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You managed to find the corner case I was expecting: Not a derailer, so no damage, but also not a bypass, since it doesn't rejoin. I suppose my only argument would be that they would have to be placed regularly since one may not know whether one can reach the next before the priority train is confronted.
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– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
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You managed to find the corner case I was expecting: Not a derailer, so no damage, but also not a bypass, since it doesn't rejoin. I suppose my only argument would be that they would have to be placed regularly since one may not know whether one can reach the next before the priority train is confronted.
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– A Lambent Eye
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Very true, which is why I suggested a dead end of an unfinished or partially dismantled line as being useful as an ad-hoc Catch-point. I'm particularly liking that using this would require lateral thinking and area-knowledge from any characters in your story or narrative. So it's dramatically much more satisfying than "and they used a well placed safety measure to safely derail a train"
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– Ruadhan
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
Very true, which is why I suggested a dead end of an unfinished or partially dismantled line as being useful as an ad-hoc Catch-point. I'm particularly liking that using this would require lateral thinking and area-knowledge from any characters in your story or narrative. So it's dramatically much more satisfying than "and they used a well placed safety measure to safely derail a train"
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– Ruadhan
10 hours ago
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It is a classic point of drama in railway novels, or so I'm told...
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– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
It is a classic point of drama in railway novels, or so I'm told...
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– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago
2
2
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Catch points derail the train. Derailling a train at 100km/h is absolutely not safe for the occupants of that train. It's safer than colliding with a train going at 200km/h in the opposite direction, but you're still going to have fatalities. Specifically, running off the track will cause the front of the train to decelerate suddenly, while the back continues to run forwards and concertinas. Now you have a selection of railway carriages at 90 degrees across the track, ready for the fast train to plough into.
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
Catch points derail the train. Derailling a train at 100km/h is absolutely not safe for the occupants of that train. It's safer than colliding with a train going at 200km/h in the opposite direction, but you're still going to have fatalities. Specifically, running off the track will cause the front of the train to decelerate suddenly, while the back continues to run forwards and concertinas. Now you have a selection of railway carriages at 90 degrees across the track, ready for the fast train to plough into.
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– David Richerby
9 hours ago
add a comment |
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No problem. Captain Kirk is orbiting above the trains in the Starship Enterprise. He has Scotty take over the transporter and Scotty beams the first train behind the second to avoid the collision.
New contributor
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Why didn't I think of this before? Ingenious!
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– A Lambent Eye
6 hours ago
1
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@ALambentEye -- Sort of begs the question -- With such transporter technology, why are trains still being used?
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– MaxW
6 hours ago
add a comment |
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No problem. Captain Kirk is orbiting above the trains in the Starship Enterprise. He has Scotty take over the transporter and Scotty beams the first train behind the second to avoid the collision.
New contributor
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Why didn't I think of this before? Ingenious!
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– A Lambent Eye
6 hours ago
1
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@ALambentEye -- Sort of begs the question -- With such transporter technology, why are trains still being used?
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– MaxW
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No problem. Captain Kirk is orbiting above the trains in the Starship Enterprise. He has Scotty take over the transporter and Scotty beams the first train behind the second to avoid the collision.
New contributor
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No problem. Captain Kirk is orbiting above the trains in the Starship Enterprise. He has Scotty take over the transporter and Scotty beams the first train behind the second to avoid the collision.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 6 hours ago
MaxWMaxW
1073
1073
New contributor
New contributor
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Why didn't I think of this before? Ingenious!
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– A Lambent Eye
6 hours ago
1
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@ALambentEye -- Sort of begs the question -- With such transporter technology, why are trains still being used?
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– MaxW
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Why didn't I think of this before? Ingenious!
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– A Lambent Eye
6 hours ago
1
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@ALambentEye -- Sort of begs the question -- With such transporter technology, why are trains still being used?
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– MaxW
6 hours ago
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Why didn't I think of this before? Ingenious!
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– A Lambent Eye
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why didn't I think of this before? Ingenious!
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– A Lambent Eye
6 hours ago
1
1
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@ALambentEye -- Sort of begs the question -- With such transporter technology, why are trains still being used?
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– MaxW
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ALambentEye -- Sort of begs the question -- With such transporter technology, why are trains still being used?
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– MaxW
6 hours ago
add a comment |
protected by James♦ 6 hours ago
Thank you for your interest in this question.
Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).
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2
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"Although accidental derailment is damaging to equipment and track, and requires considerable time and expense to remedy, derails are used in situations where there is a risk of greater damage to equipment, injury or death if equipment is allowed to proceed past the derail point." (A "derail" or "derailer" is a device used to prevent fouling -- blocking or compromising -- of a rail track, or to avoid collisions with anything present on the track; it works by derailing equipment passing over it.) I don't understand what a "safe" derailment would be.
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– AlexP
16 hours ago
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@AlexP 'Safe' derailment as in a train is removed from the path of transit while minimising the damage to the derailed train.
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– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
4
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The fastest solution - the one that avoids slowing down the priority train - is stopping the other train, then force it to go backwards until the closest place where it can move out of the way (a railroad switch) or until the priority train destination. Any other solution is going to take even more time.
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– Rekesoft
14 hours ago
1
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@Rekesoft Having the opposing train become part of the priority train? That would be a sensible answer I'd be willing to upvote.
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– A Lambent Eye
14 hours ago
1
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@UKMonkey Isn't that what makes it worth being a question? The fact that bypasses aren't permitted?
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– A Lambent Eye
9 hours ago