Why is delta-v the most useful quantity for planning space travel?Could a partial space elevator be practical and useful?Do we sufficiently understand mechanics of Lagrange point stationkeeping for EML2 rendezvous and assembly?Is there a simple relation between delta-v and travel time?What's the name of this maneuver for unlimited delta-v?How useful is the Interplanetary Transport Network?Calculating dV to raise apoapsis at an arbitrary point of an orbitDid Rosetta improve on models of non-gravitational effects on comet 67P's orbit?How to best think of the State Transition Matrix, and how to use it to find periodic Halo orbits?Why are most of Jupiter's moons retrograde?How does the delta v for leaving Earth orbit change in different directions from the Earth?
Avoiding estate tax by giving multiple gifts
What does the word "Atten" mean?
How to safely derail a train during transit?
How can I kill an app using Terminal?
Detecting if an element is found inside a container
Trouble understanding the speech of overseas colleagues
What is the best translation for "slot" in the context of multiplayer video games?
Customer Requests (Sometimes) Drive Me Bonkers!
Is expanding the research of a group into machine learning as a PhD student risky?
How do I find the solutions of the following equation?
Increase performance creating Mandelbrot set in python
I'm in charge of equipment buying but no one's ever happy with what I choose. How to fix this?
You cannot touch me, but I can touch you, who am I?
How easy is it to start Magic from scratch?
How does it work when somebody invests in my business?
Implement the Thanos sorting algorithm
Why Were Madagascar and New Zealand Discovered So Late?
Crossing the line between justified force and brutality
Go Pregnant or Go Home
Is exact Kanji stroke length important?
Class Action - which options I have?
Are student evaluations of teaching assistants read by others in the faculty?
Integer addition + constant, is it a group?
Proof of work - lottery approach
Why is delta-v the most useful quantity for planning space travel?
Could a partial space elevator be practical and useful?Do we sufficiently understand mechanics of Lagrange point stationkeeping for EML2 rendezvous and assembly?Is there a simple relation between delta-v and travel time?What's the name of this maneuver for unlimited delta-v?How useful is the Interplanetary Transport Network?Calculating dV to raise apoapsis at an arbitrary point of an orbitDid Rosetta improve on models of non-gravitational effects on comet 67P's orbit?How to best think of the State Transition Matrix, and how to use it to find periodic Halo orbits?Why are most of Jupiter's moons retrograde?How does the delta v for leaving Earth orbit change in different directions from the Earth?
$begingroup$
Many of the questions and answers on this site make use of the concept of delta-v. Is there an easy to understand the reason why delta-v, the magnitude of the change of the velocity, $|mathbfv|$, is so useful for understanding orbital mechanics and planning travel?
My experience in solving physics problems in mechanics has taught me that energy, linear momentum, or angular momentum are usually the most useful quantities. Delta-v doesn't seem to be a good proxy for any of these quantities, since it's not squared like the kinetic energy, but it's also not a vector like the linear and angular momenta.
orbital-mechanics
$endgroup$
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
Many of the questions and answers on this site make use of the concept of delta-v. Is there an easy to understand the reason why delta-v, the magnitude of the change of the velocity, $|mathbfv|$, is so useful for understanding orbital mechanics and planning travel?
My experience in solving physics problems in mechanics has taught me that energy, linear momentum, or angular momentum are usually the most useful quantities. Delta-v doesn't seem to be a good proxy for any of these quantities, since it's not squared like the kinetic energy, but it's also not a vector like the linear and angular momenta.
orbital-mechanics
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
I'd wager that it's because that quantity is an increasing value, with respect to time, it can never decrease. You cannot lose delta-v over time, you can only increase your delta-v. Also it's agnostic to the body, unlike angular momentum. For a transfer to Mars, you could say "It will take X change in velocity from LEO to LMO." Where-as what you would say for momentum you'll have to say "I need a momentum/energy increase of X from LEO then a momentum/energy decrease of X from Mars approach to LMO". (Note I actually do not know)
$endgroup$
– Magic Octopus Urn
2 days ago
5
$begingroup$
Ultimately, we use delta-v to determine the amount of fuel needed to change the trajectory to a desired one using impulse thrusts (sudden change in velocity). But since fuel mass grows exponentially with delta-v, it’s easier to work with delta-v instead of fuel mass directly. It doesn’t matter if you slow down or speed up, the fuel consumed is the same for a given delta-v. Thus, you can accumulate each velocity change over a mission to estimate fuel needed
$endgroup$
– Paul
2 days ago
5
$begingroup$
The short version: Mass cancels out.
$endgroup$
– chrylis
yesterday
5
$begingroup$
Spend a few days playing Kerbal Space Program and you should develop a much better understanding of why delta-v is by far the most important factor in spacecraft design and mission planning.
$endgroup$
– MooseBoys
yesterday
2
$begingroup$
In addition to other answers and comments, energy, linear momentum, and angular momentum aren't very useful because they depend on mass and in a spacecraft mass is not constant. A workaround could be using change of momentum per mass unit, which is (unsurprisingly) equal to delta-v.
$endgroup$
– Pere
yesterday
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
Many of the questions and answers on this site make use of the concept of delta-v. Is there an easy to understand the reason why delta-v, the magnitude of the change of the velocity, $|mathbfv|$, is so useful for understanding orbital mechanics and planning travel?
My experience in solving physics problems in mechanics has taught me that energy, linear momentum, or angular momentum are usually the most useful quantities. Delta-v doesn't seem to be a good proxy for any of these quantities, since it's not squared like the kinetic energy, but it's also not a vector like the linear and angular momenta.
orbital-mechanics
$endgroup$
Many of the questions and answers on this site make use of the concept of delta-v. Is there an easy to understand the reason why delta-v, the magnitude of the change of the velocity, $|mathbfv|$, is so useful for understanding orbital mechanics and planning travel?
My experience in solving physics problems in mechanics has taught me that energy, linear momentum, or angular momentum are usually the most useful quantities. Delta-v doesn't seem to be a good proxy for any of these quantities, since it's not squared like the kinetic energy, but it's also not a vector like the linear and angular momenta.
orbital-mechanics
orbital-mechanics
edited 14 hours ago
Peter Mortensen
21217
21217
asked 2 days ago
WaterMoleculeWaterMolecule
755511
755511
3
$begingroup$
I'd wager that it's because that quantity is an increasing value, with respect to time, it can never decrease. You cannot lose delta-v over time, you can only increase your delta-v. Also it's agnostic to the body, unlike angular momentum. For a transfer to Mars, you could say "It will take X change in velocity from LEO to LMO." Where-as what you would say for momentum you'll have to say "I need a momentum/energy increase of X from LEO then a momentum/energy decrease of X from Mars approach to LMO". (Note I actually do not know)
$endgroup$
– Magic Octopus Urn
2 days ago
5
$begingroup$
Ultimately, we use delta-v to determine the amount of fuel needed to change the trajectory to a desired one using impulse thrusts (sudden change in velocity). But since fuel mass grows exponentially with delta-v, it’s easier to work with delta-v instead of fuel mass directly. It doesn’t matter if you slow down or speed up, the fuel consumed is the same for a given delta-v. Thus, you can accumulate each velocity change over a mission to estimate fuel needed
$endgroup$
– Paul
2 days ago
5
$begingroup$
The short version: Mass cancels out.
$endgroup$
– chrylis
yesterday
5
$begingroup$
Spend a few days playing Kerbal Space Program and you should develop a much better understanding of why delta-v is by far the most important factor in spacecraft design and mission planning.
$endgroup$
– MooseBoys
yesterday
2
$begingroup$
In addition to other answers and comments, energy, linear momentum, and angular momentum aren't very useful because they depend on mass and in a spacecraft mass is not constant. A workaround could be using change of momentum per mass unit, which is (unsurprisingly) equal to delta-v.
$endgroup$
– Pere
yesterday
|
show 5 more comments
3
$begingroup$
I'd wager that it's because that quantity is an increasing value, with respect to time, it can never decrease. You cannot lose delta-v over time, you can only increase your delta-v. Also it's agnostic to the body, unlike angular momentum. For a transfer to Mars, you could say "It will take X change in velocity from LEO to LMO." Where-as what you would say for momentum you'll have to say "I need a momentum/energy increase of X from LEO then a momentum/energy decrease of X from Mars approach to LMO". (Note I actually do not know)
$endgroup$
– Magic Octopus Urn
2 days ago
5
$begingroup$
Ultimately, we use delta-v to determine the amount of fuel needed to change the trajectory to a desired one using impulse thrusts (sudden change in velocity). But since fuel mass grows exponentially with delta-v, it’s easier to work with delta-v instead of fuel mass directly. It doesn’t matter if you slow down or speed up, the fuel consumed is the same for a given delta-v. Thus, you can accumulate each velocity change over a mission to estimate fuel needed
$endgroup$
– Paul
2 days ago
5
$begingroup$
The short version: Mass cancels out.
$endgroup$
– chrylis
yesterday
5
$begingroup$
Spend a few days playing Kerbal Space Program and you should develop a much better understanding of why delta-v is by far the most important factor in spacecraft design and mission planning.
$endgroup$
– MooseBoys
yesterday
2
$begingroup$
In addition to other answers and comments, energy, linear momentum, and angular momentum aren't very useful because they depend on mass and in a spacecraft mass is not constant. A workaround could be using change of momentum per mass unit, which is (unsurprisingly) equal to delta-v.
$endgroup$
– Pere
yesterday
3
3
$begingroup$
I'd wager that it's because that quantity is an increasing value, with respect to time, it can never decrease. You cannot lose delta-v over time, you can only increase your delta-v. Also it's agnostic to the body, unlike angular momentum. For a transfer to Mars, you could say "It will take X change in velocity from LEO to LMO." Where-as what you would say for momentum you'll have to say "I need a momentum/energy increase of X from LEO then a momentum/energy decrease of X from Mars approach to LMO". (Note I actually do not know)
$endgroup$
– Magic Octopus Urn
2 days ago
$begingroup$
I'd wager that it's because that quantity is an increasing value, with respect to time, it can never decrease. You cannot lose delta-v over time, you can only increase your delta-v. Also it's agnostic to the body, unlike angular momentum. For a transfer to Mars, you could say "It will take X change in velocity from LEO to LMO." Where-as what you would say for momentum you'll have to say "I need a momentum/energy increase of X from LEO then a momentum/energy decrease of X from Mars approach to LMO". (Note I actually do not know)
$endgroup$
– Magic Octopus Urn
2 days ago
5
5
$begingroup$
Ultimately, we use delta-v to determine the amount of fuel needed to change the trajectory to a desired one using impulse thrusts (sudden change in velocity). But since fuel mass grows exponentially with delta-v, it’s easier to work with delta-v instead of fuel mass directly. It doesn’t matter if you slow down or speed up, the fuel consumed is the same for a given delta-v. Thus, you can accumulate each velocity change over a mission to estimate fuel needed
$endgroup$
– Paul
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Ultimately, we use delta-v to determine the amount of fuel needed to change the trajectory to a desired one using impulse thrusts (sudden change in velocity). But since fuel mass grows exponentially with delta-v, it’s easier to work with delta-v instead of fuel mass directly. It doesn’t matter if you slow down or speed up, the fuel consumed is the same for a given delta-v. Thus, you can accumulate each velocity change over a mission to estimate fuel needed
$endgroup$
– Paul
2 days ago
5
5
$begingroup$
The short version: Mass cancels out.
$endgroup$
– chrylis
yesterday
$begingroup$
The short version: Mass cancels out.
$endgroup$
– chrylis
yesterday
5
5
$begingroup$
Spend a few days playing Kerbal Space Program and you should develop a much better understanding of why delta-v is by far the most important factor in spacecraft design and mission planning.
$endgroup$
– MooseBoys
yesterday
$begingroup$
Spend a few days playing Kerbal Space Program and you should develop a much better understanding of why delta-v is by far the most important factor in spacecraft design and mission planning.
$endgroup$
– MooseBoys
yesterday
2
2
$begingroup$
In addition to other answers and comments, energy, linear momentum, and angular momentum aren't very useful because they depend on mass and in a spacecraft mass is not constant. A workaround could be using change of momentum per mass unit, which is (unsurprisingly) equal to delta-v.
$endgroup$
– Pere
yesterday
$begingroup$
In addition to other answers and comments, energy, linear momentum, and angular momentum aren't very useful because they depend on mass and in a spacecraft mass is not constant. A workaround could be using change of momentum per mass unit, which is (unsurprisingly) equal to delta-v.
$endgroup$
– Pere
yesterday
|
show 5 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Your orbit is uniquely determined by a current position (three coordinates) and velocity (three more quantities to give magnitude and direction). Going places involves changing your orbit. For instance, from a circular orbit about Earth, enter an elliptical transfer orbit to the moon, then circularize your orbit about the moon. Everything you do in space travel involves changing from one orbit to another orbit, and that is done by changing your velocity.
Heavy spaceships have to change their momentum more than light spaceships, but they both have to change their velocities by the same amount. It can be done with a long, slow acceleration, or a short, fast acceleration. Whatever ship you have, and however you do it, the delta-V is the end result that you must achieve.
Your new orbit definitely does depend on your vector delta-V, but pointing your spaceship is basically a freebie. And you don't get any of your fuel back if you accelerate first in one direction and then in the opposite direction. So, as a characteristic of your spacecraft, it really kind of is a scalar quantity, even if direction does matter when you use it.
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
Ahhh... great point. Its agnostic to mass as well. I knew I was missing something. I am glad I didnt answer :).
$endgroup$
– Magic Octopus Urn
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Note that plane-change operations may also be involved depending on where you want to go. And while plane changing does fall under the broad heading of "changing your velocity" its in a perpendicular direction to your orbital plane, as opposed to along your trajectory's path (either forwards or backwards). For instance, the ideal shuttle launch inclination and that of the ISS are quite different, so the easy math of just matching velocities won't be enough delta v.
$endgroup$
– Draco18s
yesterday
$begingroup$
In considering trajectories going between different spheres of influence, it's not uncommon to refer to "(mass) specific energy", which is just energy per unit mass.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
I think what's missing from this answer is why delta-v is simply additive, i.e., why the relevant cost is linear in the delta-v magnitude (rather than say quadratic, which might seem more natural on grounds of vector algebra and energy).
$endgroup$
– nanoman
yesterday
$begingroup$
@nanoman Because in space you're not pushing against the ground; the faster you're going in your thrust direction, the slower your propellant in the opposite direction.
$endgroup$
– wizzwizz4
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Delta-v determines the amount of propellant needed.
Suppose a craft with mass $m$ and velocity $mathbfv$ burns a small mass $|Delta m|$ of propellant and ejects it at relative velocity $mathbfu$, so that the craft mass changes by $Delta m < 0$. This occurs over a time $Delta t$ in a local gravitational field $mathbfg$. Then the new craft velocity $mathbfv + Deltamathbfv$ is given by
$$textinitial momentum + textchange in momentum due to gravity = textfinal momentum of propellant + textfinal momentum of craft,$$
$$mmathbfv + (Delta t)mmathbfg = -Delta m(mathbfv + mathbfu) + (m + Delta m)(mathbfv + Deltamathbfv).$$
Given that the increments are small, this simplifies to
$$(Delta m)mathbfu = mDeltamathbfv - (Delta t)mmathbfg.$$
Dividing through by $(Delta t)m$ and passing to derivatives, we have
$$fracdot mmathbfum = dotmathbfv - mathbfg.$$
Taking magnitudes (remembering $dot m < 0$) and integrating over time, we obtain the rocket equation
$$|mathbfu|lnfracm_0m = int dt,|dotmathbfv - mathbfg|,$$
where $|mathbfu|$ is constant since it's a characteristic of the propulsion system. The right-hand side is the general definition of delta-v. We see that it is directly linked to the initial craft mass $m_0$, determining the initial amount of propellant needed.
Now, suppose the propellant is utilized in quick burns, during each of which $mathbfu$ is constant in direction and $|dotmathbfv| gg |mathbfg|$, separated by coasting intervals during which $dotmathbfv = mathbfg$ (i.e., $dot m = 0$). Then delta-v simplifies to
$$int dt,|dotmathbfv - mathbfg| = |Deltamathbfv_textburn 1| + |Deltamathbfv_textburn 2| + cdots,$$
hence its name. (In this equation $Deltamathbfv$ is not required to be small.)
New contributor
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Good answer! I've had a hard time deciding which answer to accept. This one has the mathematical logic that I was looking for, but Greg's has the intuition that I was also looking for.
$endgroup$
– WaterMolecule
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My experience in solving physics problems in mechanics has taught me that energy, linear momentum, or angular momentum are usually the most useful quantities.
To put @Greg's answer short: delta-V is a mass-normalized measure to all of the quantities you mention.
(not addressing vector vs. scalar)
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "508"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fspace.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f35041%2fwhy-is-delta-v-the-most-useful-quantity-for-planning-space-travel%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Your orbit is uniquely determined by a current position (three coordinates) and velocity (three more quantities to give magnitude and direction). Going places involves changing your orbit. For instance, from a circular orbit about Earth, enter an elliptical transfer orbit to the moon, then circularize your orbit about the moon. Everything you do in space travel involves changing from one orbit to another orbit, and that is done by changing your velocity.
Heavy spaceships have to change their momentum more than light spaceships, but they both have to change their velocities by the same amount. It can be done with a long, slow acceleration, or a short, fast acceleration. Whatever ship you have, and however you do it, the delta-V is the end result that you must achieve.
Your new orbit definitely does depend on your vector delta-V, but pointing your spaceship is basically a freebie. And you don't get any of your fuel back if you accelerate first in one direction and then in the opposite direction. So, as a characteristic of your spacecraft, it really kind of is a scalar quantity, even if direction does matter when you use it.
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
Ahhh... great point. Its agnostic to mass as well. I knew I was missing something. I am glad I didnt answer :).
$endgroup$
– Magic Octopus Urn
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Note that plane-change operations may also be involved depending on where you want to go. And while plane changing does fall under the broad heading of "changing your velocity" its in a perpendicular direction to your orbital plane, as opposed to along your trajectory's path (either forwards or backwards). For instance, the ideal shuttle launch inclination and that of the ISS are quite different, so the easy math of just matching velocities won't be enough delta v.
$endgroup$
– Draco18s
yesterday
$begingroup$
In considering trajectories going between different spheres of influence, it's not uncommon to refer to "(mass) specific energy", which is just energy per unit mass.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
I think what's missing from this answer is why delta-v is simply additive, i.e., why the relevant cost is linear in the delta-v magnitude (rather than say quadratic, which might seem more natural on grounds of vector algebra and energy).
$endgroup$
– nanoman
yesterday
$begingroup$
@nanoman Because in space you're not pushing against the ground; the faster you're going in your thrust direction, the slower your propellant in the opposite direction.
$endgroup$
– wizzwizz4
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your orbit is uniquely determined by a current position (three coordinates) and velocity (three more quantities to give magnitude and direction). Going places involves changing your orbit. For instance, from a circular orbit about Earth, enter an elliptical transfer orbit to the moon, then circularize your orbit about the moon. Everything you do in space travel involves changing from one orbit to another orbit, and that is done by changing your velocity.
Heavy spaceships have to change their momentum more than light spaceships, but they both have to change their velocities by the same amount. It can be done with a long, slow acceleration, or a short, fast acceleration. Whatever ship you have, and however you do it, the delta-V is the end result that you must achieve.
Your new orbit definitely does depend on your vector delta-V, but pointing your spaceship is basically a freebie. And you don't get any of your fuel back if you accelerate first in one direction and then in the opposite direction. So, as a characteristic of your spacecraft, it really kind of is a scalar quantity, even if direction does matter when you use it.
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
Ahhh... great point. Its agnostic to mass as well. I knew I was missing something. I am glad I didnt answer :).
$endgroup$
– Magic Octopus Urn
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Note that plane-change operations may also be involved depending on where you want to go. And while plane changing does fall under the broad heading of "changing your velocity" its in a perpendicular direction to your orbital plane, as opposed to along your trajectory's path (either forwards or backwards). For instance, the ideal shuttle launch inclination and that of the ISS are quite different, so the easy math of just matching velocities won't be enough delta v.
$endgroup$
– Draco18s
yesterday
$begingroup$
In considering trajectories going between different spheres of influence, it's not uncommon to refer to "(mass) specific energy", which is just energy per unit mass.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
I think what's missing from this answer is why delta-v is simply additive, i.e., why the relevant cost is linear in the delta-v magnitude (rather than say quadratic, which might seem more natural on grounds of vector algebra and energy).
$endgroup$
– nanoman
yesterday
$begingroup$
@nanoman Because in space you're not pushing against the ground; the faster you're going in your thrust direction, the slower your propellant in the opposite direction.
$endgroup$
– wizzwizz4
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your orbit is uniquely determined by a current position (three coordinates) and velocity (three more quantities to give magnitude and direction). Going places involves changing your orbit. For instance, from a circular orbit about Earth, enter an elliptical transfer orbit to the moon, then circularize your orbit about the moon. Everything you do in space travel involves changing from one orbit to another orbit, and that is done by changing your velocity.
Heavy spaceships have to change their momentum more than light spaceships, but they both have to change their velocities by the same amount. It can be done with a long, slow acceleration, or a short, fast acceleration. Whatever ship you have, and however you do it, the delta-V is the end result that you must achieve.
Your new orbit definitely does depend on your vector delta-V, but pointing your spaceship is basically a freebie. And you don't get any of your fuel back if you accelerate first in one direction and then in the opposite direction. So, as a characteristic of your spacecraft, it really kind of is a scalar quantity, even if direction does matter when you use it.
$endgroup$
Your orbit is uniquely determined by a current position (three coordinates) and velocity (three more quantities to give magnitude and direction). Going places involves changing your orbit. For instance, from a circular orbit about Earth, enter an elliptical transfer orbit to the moon, then circularize your orbit about the moon. Everything you do in space travel involves changing from one orbit to another orbit, and that is done by changing your velocity.
Heavy spaceships have to change their momentum more than light spaceships, but they both have to change their velocities by the same amount. It can be done with a long, slow acceleration, or a short, fast acceleration. Whatever ship you have, and however you do it, the delta-V is the end result that you must achieve.
Your new orbit definitely does depend on your vector delta-V, but pointing your spaceship is basically a freebie. And you don't get any of your fuel back if you accelerate first in one direction and then in the opposite direction. So, as a characteristic of your spacecraft, it really kind of is a scalar quantity, even if direction does matter when you use it.
answered 2 days ago
GregGreg
82137
82137
4
$begingroup$
Ahhh... great point. Its agnostic to mass as well. I knew I was missing something. I am glad I didnt answer :).
$endgroup$
– Magic Octopus Urn
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Note that plane-change operations may also be involved depending on where you want to go. And while plane changing does fall under the broad heading of "changing your velocity" its in a perpendicular direction to your orbital plane, as opposed to along your trajectory's path (either forwards or backwards). For instance, the ideal shuttle launch inclination and that of the ISS are quite different, so the easy math of just matching velocities won't be enough delta v.
$endgroup$
– Draco18s
yesterday
$begingroup$
In considering trajectories going between different spheres of influence, it's not uncommon to refer to "(mass) specific energy", which is just energy per unit mass.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
I think what's missing from this answer is why delta-v is simply additive, i.e., why the relevant cost is linear in the delta-v magnitude (rather than say quadratic, which might seem more natural on grounds of vector algebra and energy).
$endgroup$
– nanoman
yesterday
$begingroup$
@nanoman Because in space you're not pushing against the ground; the faster you're going in your thrust direction, the slower your propellant in the opposite direction.
$endgroup$
– wizzwizz4
yesterday
add a comment |
4
$begingroup$
Ahhh... great point. Its agnostic to mass as well. I knew I was missing something. I am glad I didnt answer :).
$endgroup$
– Magic Octopus Urn
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Note that plane-change operations may also be involved depending on where you want to go. And while plane changing does fall under the broad heading of "changing your velocity" its in a perpendicular direction to your orbital plane, as opposed to along your trajectory's path (either forwards or backwards). For instance, the ideal shuttle launch inclination and that of the ISS are quite different, so the easy math of just matching velocities won't be enough delta v.
$endgroup$
– Draco18s
yesterday
$begingroup$
In considering trajectories going between different spheres of influence, it's not uncommon to refer to "(mass) specific energy", which is just energy per unit mass.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
I think what's missing from this answer is why delta-v is simply additive, i.e., why the relevant cost is linear in the delta-v magnitude (rather than say quadratic, which might seem more natural on grounds of vector algebra and energy).
$endgroup$
– nanoman
yesterday
$begingroup$
@nanoman Because in space you're not pushing against the ground; the faster you're going in your thrust direction, the slower your propellant in the opposite direction.
$endgroup$
– wizzwizz4
yesterday
4
4
$begingroup$
Ahhh... great point. Its agnostic to mass as well. I knew I was missing something. I am glad I didnt answer :).
$endgroup$
– Magic Octopus Urn
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Ahhh... great point. Its agnostic to mass as well. I knew I was missing something. I am glad I didnt answer :).
$endgroup$
– Magic Octopus Urn
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Note that plane-change operations may also be involved depending on where you want to go. And while plane changing does fall under the broad heading of "changing your velocity" its in a perpendicular direction to your orbital plane, as opposed to along your trajectory's path (either forwards or backwards). For instance, the ideal shuttle launch inclination and that of the ISS are quite different, so the easy math of just matching velocities won't be enough delta v.
$endgroup$
– Draco18s
yesterday
$begingroup$
Note that plane-change operations may also be involved depending on where you want to go. And while plane changing does fall under the broad heading of "changing your velocity" its in a perpendicular direction to your orbital plane, as opposed to along your trajectory's path (either forwards or backwards). For instance, the ideal shuttle launch inclination and that of the ISS are quite different, so the easy math of just matching velocities won't be enough delta v.
$endgroup$
– Draco18s
yesterday
$begingroup$
In considering trajectories going between different spheres of influence, it's not uncommon to refer to "(mass) specific energy", which is just energy per unit mass.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
yesterday
$begingroup$
In considering trajectories going between different spheres of influence, it's not uncommon to refer to "(mass) specific energy", which is just energy per unit mass.
$endgroup$
– Russell Borogove
yesterday
1
1
$begingroup$
I think what's missing from this answer is why delta-v is simply additive, i.e., why the relevant cost is linear in the delta-v magnitude (rather than say quadratic, which might seem more natural on grounds of vector algebra and energy).
$endgroup$
– nanoman
yesterday
$begingroup$
I think what's missing from this answer is why delta-v is simply additive, i.e., why the relevant cost is linear in the delta-v magnitude (rather than say quadratic, which might seem more natural on grounds of vector algebra and energy).
$endgroup$
– nanoman
yesterday
$begingroup$
@nanoman Because in space you're not pushing against the ground; the faster you're going in your thrust direction, the slower your propellant in the opposite direction.
$endgroup$
– wizzwizz4
yesterday
$begingroup$
@nanoman Because in space you're not pushing against the ground; the faster you're going in your thrust direction, the slower your propellant in the opposite direction.
$endgroup$
– wizzwizz4
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Delta-v determines the amount of propellant needed.
Suppose a craft with mass $m$ and velocity $mathbfv$ burns a small mass $|Delta m|$ of propellant and ejects it at relative velocity $mathbfu$, so that the craft mass changes by $Delta m < 0$. This occurs over a time $Delta t$ in a local gravitational field $mathbfg$. Then the new craft velocity $mathbfv + Deltamathbfv$ is given by
$$textinitial momentum + textchange in momentum due to gravity = textfinal momentum of propellant + textfinal momentum of craft,$$
$$mmathbfv + (Delta t)mmathbfg = -Delta m(mathbfv + mathbfu) + (m + Delta m)(mathbfv + Deltamathbfv).$$
Given that the increments are small, this simplifies to
$$(Delta m)mathbfu = mDeltamathbfv - (Delta t)mmathbfg.$$
Dividing through by $(Delta t)m$ and passing to derivatives, we have
$$fracdot mmathbfum = dotmathbfv - mathbfg.$$
Taking magnitudes (remembering $dot m < 0$) and integrating over time, we obtain the rocket equation
$$|mathbfu|lnfracm_0m = int dt,|dotmathbfv - mathbfg|,$$
where $|mathbfu|$ is constant since it's a characteristic of the propulsion system. The right-hand side is the general definition of delta-v. We see that it is directly linked to the initial craft mass $m_0$, determining the initial amount of propellant needed.
Now, suppose the propellant is utilized in quick burns, during each of which $mathbfu$ is constant in direction and $|dotmathbfv| gg |mathbfg|$, separated by coasting intervals during which $dotmathbfv = mathbfg$ (i.e., $dot m = 0$). Then delta-v simplifies to
$$int dt,|dotmathbfv - mathbfg| = |Deltamathbfv_textburn 1| + |Deltamathbfv_textburn 2| + cdots,$$
hence its name. (In this equation $Deltamathbfv$ is not required to be small.)
New contributor
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Good answer! I've had a hard time deciding which answer to accept. This one has the mathematical logic that I was looking for, but Greg's has the intuition that I was also looking for.
$endgroup$
– WaterMolecule
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Delta-v determines the amount of propellant needed.
Suppose a craft with mass $m$ and velocity $mathbfv$ burns a small mass $|Delta m|$ of propellant and ejects it at relative velocity $mathbfu$, so that the craft mass changes by $Delta m < 0$. This occurs over a time $Delta t$ in a local gravitational field $mathbfg$. Then the new craft velocity $mathbfv + Deltamathbfv$ is given by
$$textinitial momentum + textchange in momentum due to gravity = textfinal momentum of propellant + textfinal momentum of craft,$$
$$mmathbfv + (Delta t)mmathbfg = -Delta m(mathbfv + mathbfu) + (m + Delta m)(mathbfv + Deltamathbfv).$$
Given that the increments are small, this simplifies to
$$(Delta m)mathbfu = mDeltamathbfv - (Delta t)mmathbfg.$$
Dividing through by $(Delta t)m$ and passing to derivatives, we have
$$fracdot mmathbfum = dotmathbfv - mathbfg.$$
Taking magnitudes (remembering $dot m < 0$) and integrating over time, we obtain the rocket equation
$$|mathbfu|lnfracm_0m = int dt,|dotmathbfv - mathbfg|,$$
where $|mathbfu|$ is constant since it's a characteristic of the propulsion system. The right-hand side is the general definition of delta-v. We see that it is directly linked to the initial craft mass $m_0$, determining the initial amount of propellant needed.
Now, suppose the propellant is utilized in quick burns, during each of which $mathbfu$ is constant in direction and $|dotmathbfv| gg |mathbfg|$, separated by coasting intervals during which $dotmathbfv = mathbfg$ (i.e., $dot m = 0$). Then delta-v simplifies to
$$int dt,|dotmathbfv - mathbfg| = |Deltamathbfv_textburn 1| + |Deltamathbfv_textburn 2| + cdots,$$
hence its name. (In this equation $Deltamathbfv$ is not required to be small.)
New contributor
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Good answer! I've had a hard time deciding which answer to accept. This one has the mathematical logic that I was looking for, but Greg's has the intuition that I was also looking for.
$endgroup$
– WaterMolecule
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Delta-v determines the amount of propellant needed.
Suppose a craft with mass $m$ and velocity $mathbfv$ burns a small mass $|Delta m|$ of propellant and ejects it at relative velocity $mathbfu$, so that the craft mass changes by $Delta m < 0$. This occurs over a time $Delta t$ in a local gravitational field $mathbfg$. Then the new craft velocity $mathbfv + Deltamathbfv$ is given by
$$textinitial momentum + textchange in momentum due to gravity = textfinal momentum of propellant + textfinal momentum of craft,$$
$$mmathbfv + (Delta t)mmathbfg = -Delta m(mathbfv + mathbfu) + (m + Delta m)(mathbfv + Deltamathbfv).$$
Given that the increments are small, this simplifies to
$$(Delta m)mathbfu = mDeltamathbfv - (Delta t)mmathbfg.$$
Dividing through by $(Delta t)m$ and passing to derivatives, we have
$$fracdot mmathbfum = dotmathbfv - mathbfg.$$
Taking magnitudes (remembering $dot m < 0$) and integrating over time, we obtain the rocket equation
$$|mathbfu|lnfracm_0m = int dt,|dotmathbfv - mathbfg|,$$
where $|mathbfu|$ is constant since it's a characteristic of the propulsion system. The right-hand side is the general definition of delta-v. We see that it is directly linked to the initial craft mass $m_0$, determining the initial amount of propellant needed.
Now, suppose the propellant is utilized in quick burns, during each of which $mathbfu$ is constant in direction and $|dotmathbfv| gg |mathbfg|$, separated by coasting intervals during which $dotmathbfv = mathbfg$ (i.e., $dot m = 0$). Then delta-v simplifies to
$$int dt,|dotmathbfv - mathbfg| = |Deltamathbfv_textburn 1| + |Deltamathbfv_textburn 2| + cdots,$$
hence its name. (In this equation $Deltamathbfv$ is not required to be small.)
New contributor
$endgroup$
Delta-v determines the amount of propellant needed.
Suppose a craft with mass $m$ and velocity $mathbfv$ burns a small mass $|Delta m|$ of propellant and ejects it at relative velocity $mathbfu$, so that the craft mass changes by $Delta m < 0$. This occurs over a time $Delta t$ in a local gravitational field $mathbfg$. Then the new craft velocity $mathbfv + Deltamathbfv$ is given by
$$textinitial momentum + textchange in momentum due to gravity = textfinal momentum of propellant + textfinal momentum of craft,$$
$$mmathbfv + (Delta t)mmathbfg = -Delta m(mathbfv + mathbfu) + (m + Delta m)(mathbfv + Deltamathbfv).$$
Given that the increments are small, this simplifies to
$$(Delta m)mathbfu = mDeltamathbfv - (Delta t)mmathbfg.$$
Dividing through by $(Delta t)m$ and passing to derivatives, we have
$$fracdot mmathbfum = dotmathbfv - mathbfg.$$
Taking magnitudes (remembering $dot m < 0$) and integrating over time, we obtain the rocket equation
$$|mathbfu|lnfracm_0m = int dt,|dotmathbfv - mathbfg|,$$
where $|mathbfu|$ is constant since it's a characteristic of the propulsion system. The right-hand side is the general definition of delta-v. We see that it is directly linked to the initial craft mass $m_0$, determining the initial amount of propellant needed.
Now, suppose the propellant is utilized in quick burns, during each of which $mathbfu$ is constant in direction and $|dotmathbfv| gg |mathbfg|$, separated by coasting intervals during which $dotmathbfv = mathbfg$ (i.e., $dot m = 0$). Then delta-v simplifies to
$$int dt,|dotmathbfv - mathbfg| = |Deltamathbfv_textburn 1| + |Deltamathbfv_textburn 2| + cdots,$$
hence its name. (In this equation $Deltamathbfv$ is not required to be small.)
New contributor
New contributor
answered yesterday
nanomannanoman
2012
2012
New contributor
New contributor
$begingroup$
Good answer! I've had a hard time deciding which answer to accept. This one has the mathematical logic that I was looking for, but Greg's has the intuition that I was also looking for.
$endgroup$
– WaterMolecule
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Good answer! I've had a hard time deciding which answer to accept. This one has the mathematical logic that I was looking for, but Greg's has the intuition that I was also looking for.
$endgroup$
– WaterMolecule
yesterday
$begingroup$
Good answer! I've had a hard time deciding which answer to accept. This one has the mathematical logic that I was looking for, but Greg's has the intuition that I was also looking for.
$endgroup$
– WaterMolecule
yesterday
$begingroup$
Good answer! I've had a hard time deciding which answer to accept. This one has the mathematical logic that I was looking for, but Greg's has the intuition that I was also looking for.
$endgroup$
– WaterMolecule
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My experience in solving physics problems in mechanics has taught me that energy, linear momentum, or angular momentum are usually the most useful quantities.
To put @Greg's answer short: delta-V is a mass-normalized measure to all of the quantities you mention.
(not addressing vector vs. scalar)
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My experience in solving physics problems in mechanics has taught me that energy, linear momentum, or angular momentum are usually the most useful quantities.
To put @Greg's answer short: delta-V is a mass-normalized measure to all of the quantities you mention.
(not addressing vector vs. scalar)
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My experience in solving physics problems in mechanics has taught me that energy, linear momentum, or angular momentum are usually the most useful quantities.
To put @Greg's answer short: delta-V is a mass-normalized measure to all of the quantities you mention.
(not addressing vector vs. scalar)
$endgroup$
My experience in solving physics problems in mechanics has taught me that energy, linear momentum, or angular momentum are usually the most useful quantities.
To put @Greg's answer short: delta-V is a mass-normalized measure to all of the quantities you mention.
(not addressing vector vs. scalar)
answered yesterday
Everyday AstronautEveryday Astronaut
2,172832
2,172832
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Space Exploration Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fspace.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f35041%2fwhy-is-delta-v-the-most-useful-quantity-for-planning-space-travel%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
3
$begingroup$
I'd wager that it's because that quantity is an increasing value, with respect to time, it can never decrease. You cannot lose delta-v over time, you can only increase your delta-v. Also it's agnostic to the body, unlike angular momentum. For a transfer to Mars, you could say "It will take X change in velocity from LEO to LMO." Where-as what you would say for momentum you'll have to say "I need a momentum/energy increase of X from LEO then a momentum/energy decrease of X from Mars approach to LMO". (Note I actually do not know)
$endgroup$
– Magic Octopus Urn
2 days ago
5
$begingroup$
Ultimately, we use delta-v to determine the amount of fuel needed to change the trajectory to a desired one using impulse thrusts (sudden change in velocity). But since fuel mass grows exponentially with delta-v, it’s easier to work with delta-v instead of fuel mass directly. It doesn’t matter if you slow down or speed up, the fuel consumed is the same for a given delta-v. Thus, you can accumulate each velocity change over a mission to estimate fuel needed
$endgroup$
– Paul
2 days ago
5
$begingroup$
The short version: Mass cancels out.
$endgroup$
– chrylis
yesterday
5
$begingroup$
Spend a few days playing Kerbal Space Program and you should develop a much better understanding of why delta-v is by far the most important factor in spacecraft design and mission planning.
$endgroup$
– MooseBoys
yesterday
2
$begingroup$
In addition to other answers and comments, energy, linear momentum, and angular momentum aren't very useful because they depend on mass and in a spacecraft mass is not constant. A workaround could be using change of momentum per mass unit, which is (unsurprisingly) equal to delta-v.
$endgroup$
– Pere
yesterday