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Safety when modifying old electrical work


When wiring a switch loop, which wire is which?low voltage from circuit - bad breaker?Did I damage the breaker by incorrectly wiring a generator?Trying to hook up 2 new lights and 1 outletProtecting multiple outlets with one GFCI; is it possible with this wiring scheme?Loud Noise, possibly electrical, from somewhere in the houseHow to wire GCFI's with 2 Hots and a single NeutralBad GFCI or did I wire it wrong?Electrical issueAFCI Breaker Randomly Tripping - No New DevicesBreaker Trips When Light Switch Is Turned On






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1















I have a relatively old house, built in the 1950s. I am slowly updating it to have smart switches etc., but the existing electrical wiring is fairly haphazard. Just yesterday I replaced a dimmer switch and found that the white wire pigtail in the box was in fact hooked up to hot, not neutral. Fortunately when I turned on the circuit it tripped the GFCI before doing any damage but I wonder if there's a better way to avoid this in the future.



Currently I just turn off the circuit at the breaker and verify there's nothing live in the box with a non-contact tester (and then an insulated screwdriver, just to be sure). Should I be pulling the wires out, switching the circuit back on, and then testing each wire individually with a multimeter (sometimes the nc tester gives false positives) before doing any work? And if I do find a wire incorrectly colored, is there a good way to label it as such?



Also, what would have happened if the switch I talked about above hadn't tripped the GFCI? When I turned the circuit back on, would the breaker immediately switch it off, or would there be a fire hazard?










share|improve this question

















  • 2





    Learn what a switch loop is. That probably won't be the only one you find. diy.stackexchange.com/questions/31700/…

    – Ecnerwal
    4 hours ago







  • 2





    In short, it will not be unusual to find that many of your switch locations will not support a smart switch without rewiring the building, as they will not have ANY neutral conductor provided. That was the way it was done for a long time, and it was code until 2011. They should be re-marked black or red, but they often are not in practice, or it wasn't very permanent after all.

    – Ecnerwal
    4 hours ago











  • First of all, id the related light controlled from more than one location? If so, check this out (any time the white wire is used as hot it should be wrapped with black tape inside the box! www2.familyhandyman.com/electrical/wiring-switches/…

    – Larry Birt
    4 hours ago

















1















I have a relatively old house, built in the 1950s. I am slowly updating it to have smart switches etc., but the existing electrical wiring is fairly haphazard. Just yesterday I replaced a dimmer switch and found that the white wire pigtail in the box was in fact hooked up to hot, not neutral. Fortunately when I turned on the circuit it tripped the GFCI before doing any damage but I wonder if there's a better way to avoid this in the future.



Currently I just turn off the circuit at the breaker and verify there's nothing live in the box with a non-contact tester (and then an insulated screwdriver, just to be sure). Should I be pulling the wires out, switching the circuit back on, and then testing each wire individually with a multimeter (sometimes the nc tester gives false positives) before doing any work? And if I do find a wire incorrectly colored, is there a good way to label it as such?



Also, what would have happened if the switch I talked about above hadn't tripped the GFCI? When I turned the circuit back on, would the breaker immediately switch it off, or would there be a fire hazard?










share|improve this question

















  • 2





    Learn what a switch loop is. That probably won't be the only one you find. diy.stackexchange.com/questions/31700/…

    – Ecnerwal
    4 hours ago







  • 2





    In short, it will not be unusual to find that many of your switch locations will not support a smart switch without rewiring the building, as they will not have ANY neutral conductor provided. That was the way it was done for a long time, and it was code until 2011. They should be re-marked black or red, but they often are not in practice, or it wasn't very permanent after all.

    – Ecnerwal
    4 hours ago











  • First of all, id the related light controlled from more than one location? If so, check this out (any time the white wire is used as hot it should be wrapped with black tape inside the box! www2.familyhandyman.com/electrical/wiring-switches/…

    – Larry Birt
    4 hours ago













1












1








1








I have a relatively old house, built in the 1950s. I am slowly updating it to have smart switches etc., but the existing electrical wiring is fairly haphazard. Just yesterday I replaced a dimmer switch and found that the white wire pigtail in the box was in fact hooked up to hot, not neutral. Fortunately when I turned on the circuit it tripped the GFCI before doing any damage but I wonder if there's a better way to avoid this in the future.



Currently I just turn off the circuit at the breaker and verify there's nothing live in the box with a non-contact tester (and then an insulated screwdriver, just to be sure). Should I be pulling the wires out, switching the circuit back on, and then testing each wire individually with a multimeter (sometimes the nc tester gives false positives) before doing any work? And if I do find a wire incorrectly colored, is there a good way to label it as such?



Also, what would have happened if the switch I talked about above hadn't tripped the GFCI? When I turned the circuit back on, would the breaker immediately switch it off, or would there be a fire hazard?










share|improve this question














I have a relatively old house, built in the 1950s. I am slowly updating it to have smart switches etc., but the existing electrical wiring is fairly haphazard. Just yesterday I replaced a dimmer switch and found that the white wire pigtail in the box was in fact hooked up to hot, not neutral. Fortunately when I turned on the circuit it tripped the GFCI before doing any damage but I wonder if there's a better way to avoid this in the future.



Currently I just turn off the circuit at the breaker and verify there's nothing live in the box with a non-contact tester (and then an insulated screwdriver, just to be sure). Should I be pulling the wires out, switching the circuit back on, and then testing each wire individually with a multimeter (sometimes the nc tester gives false positives) before doing any work? And if I do find a wire incorrectly colored, is there a good way to label it as such?



Also, what would have happened if the switch I talked about above hadn't tripped the GFCI? When I turned the circuit back on, would the breaker immediately switch it off, or would there be a fire hazard?







electrical safety old-house






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 4 hours ago









MooseBoysMooseBoys

1457




1457







  • 2





    Learn what a switch loop is. That probably won't be the only one you find. diy.stackexchange.com/questions/31700/…

    – Ecnerwal
    4 hours ago







  • 2





    In short, it will not be unusual to find that many of your switch locations will not support a smart switch without rewiring the building, as they will not have ANY neutral conductor provided. That was the way it was done for a long time, and it was code until 2011. They should be re-marked black or red, but they often are not in practice, or it wasn't very permanent after all.

    – Ecnerwal
    4 hours ago











  • First of all, id the related light controlled from more than one location? If so, check this out (any time the white wire is used as hot it should be wrapped with black tape inside the box! www2.familyhandyman.com/electrical/wiring-switches/…

    – Larry Birt
    4 hours ago












  • 2





    Learn what a switch loop is. That probably won't be the only one you find. diy.stackexchange.com/questions/31700/…

    – Ecnerwal
    4 hours ago







  • 2





    In short, it will not be unusual to find that many of your switch locations will not support a smart switch without rewiring the building, as they will not have ANY neutral conductor provided. That was the way it was done for a long time, and it was code until 2011. They should be re-marked black or red, but they often are not in practice, or it wasn't very permanent after all.

    – Ecnerwal
    4 hours ago











  • First of all, id the related light controlled from more than one location? If so, check this out (any time the white wire is used as hot it should be wrapped with black tape inside the box! www2.familyhandyman.com/electrical/wiring-switches/…

    – Larry Birt
    4 hours ago







2




2





Learn what a switch loop is. That probably won't be the only one you find. diy.stackexchange.com/questions/31700/…

– Ecnerwal
4 hours ago






Learn what a switch loop is. That probably won't be the only one you find. diy.stackexchange.com/questions/31700/…

– Ecnerwal
4 hours ago





2




2





In short, it will not be unusual to find that many of your switch locations will not support a smart switch without rewiring the building, as they will not have ANY neutral conductor provided. That was the way it was done for a long time, and it was code until 2011. They should be re-marked black or red, but they often are not in practice, or it wasn't very permanent after all.

– Ecnerwal
4 hours ago





In short, it will not be unusual to find that many of your switch locations will not support a smart switch without rewiring the building, as they will not have ANY neutral conductor provided. That was the way it was done for a long time, and it was code until 2011. They should be re-marked black or red, but they often are not in practice, or it wasn't very permanent after all.

– Ecnerwal
4 hours ago













First of all, id the related light controlled from more than one location? If so, check this out (any time the white wire is used as hot it should be wrapped with black tape inside the box! www2.familyhandyman.com/electrical/wiring-switches/…

– Larry Birt
4 hours ago





First of all, id the related light controlled from more than one location? If so, check this out (any time the white wire is used as hot it should be wrapped with black tape inside the box! www2.familyhandyman.com/electrical/wiring-switches/…

– Larry Birt
4 hours ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















3














Wires in electrical wiring are NOT color coded



Your mistake there was assuming white meant neutral. The simple fact is that electrical wiring is not color coded. That's because cables are manufactured with only one set of colors - black and white for /2 cable or black, white and red for /3. No matter what function the wire has, it must "make do" with the colors available in standard cable.



enter image description hereenter image description here



Any colors you want, as long as you want black, white and maybe red.



There are only 2 color rules.



  • Grounds are always and only, green, yellow-green or bare. Those colors can only be ground.

  • Neutrals can only be white or mid-gray, but that only applies if this cable has a neutral. If this cable doesn't need a neutral, white can be a hot. You're supposed to mark it with paint or tape, but previously you could skip it if the usage was "obvious". (to an electrician, heh).

This last one is what bit you.



Smart switches have special needs



You should have opened up your switch and investigated the wires that were available to you, before you bought the switch. If you only see 2 wires (besides ground), they must be always-hot and switched-hot, because a switch can't work without those two.



If your location doesn't have neutral, don't buy a smart switch that needs it.



If your location doesn't have ground, ditto.



You may hear things that tempt you to use ground for neutral or vice versa. Don't. Neutral is not ground.



There are smart switches that require neither neutral nor ground. They may require at least one of the bulbs to be compatible LED, incandescent, or a capacitor-resistor bypass added.



There are also other ways to work around the problem, such as smart switches that put a switching module up in the ceiling rose, then the wall switch effectively becomes a "remote" for the module.






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    1 Answer
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    3














    Wires in electrical wiring are NOT color coded



    Your mistake there was assuming white meant neutral. The simple fact is that electrical wiring is not color coded. That's because cables are manufactured with only one set of colors - black and white for /2 cable or black, white and red for /3. No matter what function the wire has, it must "make do" with the colors available in standard cable.



    enter image description hereenter image description here



    Any colors you want, as long as you want black, white and maybe red.



    There are only 2 color rules.



    • Grounds are always and only, green, yellow-green or bare. Those colors can only be ground.

    • Neutrals can only be white or mid-gray, but that only applies if this cable has a neutral. If this cable doesn't need a neutral, white can be a hot. You're supposed to mark it with paint or tape, but previously you could skip it if the usage was "obvious". (to an electrician, heh).

    This last one is what bit you.



    Smart switches have special needs



    You should have opened up your switch and investigated the wires that were available to you, before you bought the switch. If you only see 2 wires (besides ground), they must be always-hot and switched-hot, because a switch can't work without those two.



    If your location doesn't have neutral, don't buy a smart switch that needs it.



    If your location doesn't have ground, ditto.



    You may hear things that tempt you to use ground for neutral or vice versa. Don't. Neutral is not ground.



    There are smart switches that require neither neutral nor ground. They may require at least one of the bulbs to be compatible LED, incandescent, or a capacitor-resistor bypass added.



    There are also other ways to work around the problem, such as smart switches that put a switching module up in the ceiling rose, then the wall switch effectively becomes a "remote" for the module.






    share|improve this answer





























      3














      Wires in electrical wiring are NOT color coded



      Your mistake there was assuming white meant neutral. The simple fact is that electrical wiring is not color coded. That's because cables are manufactured with only one set of colors - black and white for /2 cable or black, white and red for /3. No matter what function the wire has, it must "make do" with the colors available in standard cable.



      enter image description hereenter image description here



      Any colors you want, as long as you want black, white and maybe red.



      There are only 2 color rules.



      • Grounds are always and only, green, yellow-green or bare. Those colors can only be ground.

      • Neutrals can only be white or mid-gray, but that only applies if this cable has a neutral. If this cable doesn't need a neutral, white can be a hot. You're supposed to mark it with paint or tape, but previously you could skip it if the usage was "obvious". (to an electrician, heh).

      This last one is what bit you.



      Smart switches have special needs



      You should have opened up your switch and investigated the wires that were available to you, before you bought the switch. If you only see 2 wires (besides ground), they must be always-hot and switched-hot, because a switch can't work without those two.



      If your location doesn't have neutral, don't buy a smart switch that needs it.



      If your location doesn't have ground, ditto.



      You may hear things that tempt you to use ground for neutral or vice versa. Don't. Neutral is not ground.



      There are smart switches that require neither neutral nor ground. They may require at least one of the bulbs to be compatible LED, incandescent, or a capacitor-resistor bypass added.



      There are also other ways to work around the problem, such as smart switches that put a switching module up in the ceiling rose, then the wall switch effectively becomes a "remote" for the module.






      share|improve this answer



























        3












        3








        3







        Wires in electrical wiring are NOT color coded



        Your mistake there was assuming white meant neutral. The simple fact is that electrical wiring is not color coded. That's because cables are manufactured with only one set of colors - black and white for /2 cable or black, white and red for /3. No matter what function the wire has, it must "make do" with the colors available in standard cable.



        enter image description hereenter image description here



        Any colors you want, as long as you want black, white and maybe red.



        There are only 2 color rules.



        • Grounds are always and only, green, yellow-green or bare. Those colors can only be ground.

        • Neutrals can only be white or mid-gray, but that only applies if this cable has a neutral. If this cable doesn't need a neutral, white can be a hot. You're supposed to mark it with paint or tape, but previously you could skip it if the usage was "obvious". (to an electrician, heh).

        This last one is what bit you.



        Smart switches have special needs



        You should have opened up your switch and investigated the wires that were available to you, before you bought the switch. If you only see 2 wires (besides ground), they must be always-hot and switched-hot, because a switch can't work without those two.



        If your location doesn't have neutral, don't buy a smart switch that needs it.



        If your location doesn't have ground, ditto.



        You may hear things that tempt you to use ground for neutral or vice versa. Don't. Neutral is not ground.



        There are smart switches that require neither neutral nor ground. They may require at least one of the bulbs to be compatible LED, incandescent, or a capacitor-resistor bypass added.



        There are also other ways to work around the problem, such as smart switches that put a switching module up in the ceiling rose, then the wall switch effectively becomes a "remote" for the module.






        share|improve this answer















        Wires in electrical wiring are NOT color coded



        Your mistake there was assuming white meant neutral. The simple fact is that electrical wiring is not color coded. That's because cables are manufactured with only one set of colors - black and white for /2 cable or black, white and red for /3. No matter what function the wire has, it must "make do" with the colors available in standard cable.



        enter image description hereenter image description here



        Any colors you want, as long as you want black, white and maybe red.



        There are only 2 color rules.



        • Grounds are always and only, green, yellow-green or bare. Those colors can only be ground.

        • Neutrals can only be white or mid-gray, but that only applies if this cable has a neutral. If this cable doesn't need a neutral, white can be a hot. You're supposed to mark it with paint or tape, but previously you could skip it if the usage was "obvious". (to an electrician, heh).

        This last one is what bit you.



        Smart switches have special needs



        You should have opened up your switch and investigated the wires that were available to you, before you bought the switch. If you only see 2 wires (besides ground), they must be always-hot and switched-hot, because a switch can't work without those two.



        If your location doesn't have neutral, don't buy a smart switch that needs it.



        If your location doesn't have ground, ditto.



        You may hear things that tempt you to use ground for neutral or vice versa. Don't. Neutral is not ground.



        There are smart switches that require neither neutral nor ground. They may require at least one of the bulbs to be compatible LED, incandescent, or a capacitor-resistor bypass added.



        There are also other ways to work around the problem, such as smart switches that put a switching module up in the ceiling rose, then the wall switch effectively becomes a "remote" for the module.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 2 hours ago

























        answered 2 hours ago









        HarperHarper

        78.9k552158




        78.9k552158



























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