Why does an injection from a set to a countable set imply that set is countable?An injection from an infinite set $X$ to $mathbbNimplies X$ is countable.Show that a set is countableEvery infinite set has an infinite countable subset?Show that there exists a bijection from a set that is countable and infinite into natural numbers.Surjective function from a countable setexistence of injection from countable sets to u countable setsProve that $ T $ is at most countableProve a set is countableProve that if $X$ is and infinite set and $Y$ is countable or finite, then $|X cup Y| = |X|$Prove that set $ mathbbZ×mathbbQ$ is countably infinite by constructing a bijection from that set to the natural numbers
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Why does an injection from a set to a countable set imply that set is countable?
An injection from an infinite set $X$ to $mathbbNimplies X$ is countable.Show that a set is countableEvery infinite set has an infinite countable subset?Show that there exists a bijection from a set that is countable and infinite into natural numbers.Surjective function from a countable setexistence of injection from countable sets to u countable setsProve that $ T $ is at most countableProve a set is countableProve that if $X$ is and infinite set and $Y$ is countable or finite, then $|X cup Y| = |X|$Prove that set $ mathbbZ×mathbbQ$ is countably infinite by constructing a bijection from that set to the natural numbers
$begingroup$
I'm reading a proof, and it concludes that a set $A$ is countable after finding an injection from $A$ to a countable set. Why is this true? I thought that we need to find a bijection from $A$ to a countable set to prove $A$ is countable.
Shouldn't $A$ be at most countable?
functions elementary-set-theory
New contributor
gallileo22 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I'm reading a proof, and it concludes that a set $A$ is countable after finding an injection from $A$ to a countable set. Why is this true? I thought that we need to find a bijection from $A$ to a countable set to prove $A$ is countable.
Shouldn't $A$ be at most countable?
functions elementary-set-theory
New contributor
gallileo22 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
See Countable set : "In mathematics, a countable set is a set with the same cardinality (number of elements) as some subset of the set of natural numbers. A countable set is either a finite set or a countably infinite set."
$endgroup$
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
I have voted to close this question for lacking context. To better answer your question, it would be necessary to know how the authors of the text you are reading have defined "countable". Some authors define it to mean "of cardinality equal to the natural numbers," while others define it to mean "of cardinality less than or equal to the natural numbers". A citation to the work you are reading would go a long way towards establishing context. That being said, I think that if you carefully read the definitions provided to you, the question answers itself.
$endgroup$
– Xander Henderson
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I'm reading a proof, and it concludes that a set $A$ is countable after finding an injection from $A$ to a countable set. Why is this true? I thought that we need to find a bijection from $A$ to a countable set to prove $A$ is countable.
Shouldn't $A$ be at most countable?
functions elementary-set-theory
New contributor
gallileo22 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
I'm reading a proof, and it concludes that a set $A$ is countable after finding an injection from $A$ to a countable set. Why is this true? I thought that we need to find a bijection from $A$ to a countable set to prove $A$ is countable.
Shouldn't $A$ be at most countable?
functions elementary-set-theory
functions elementary-set-theory
New contributor
gallileo22 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
gallileo22 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 2 hours ago
Asaf Karagila♦
311k33444776
311k33444776
New contributor
gallileo22 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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asked 3 hours ago
gallileo22gallileo22
1161
1161
New contributor
gallileo22 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
gallileo22 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
3
$begingroup$
See Countable set : "In mathematics, a countable set is a set with the same cardinality (number of elements) as some subset of the set of natural numbers. A countable set is either a finite set or a countably infinite set."
$endgroup$
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
I have voted to close this question for lacking context. To better answer your question, it would be necessary to know how the authors of the text you are reading have defined "countable". Some authors define it to mean "of cardinality equal to the natural numbers," while others define it to mean "of cardinality less than or equal to the natural numbers". A citation to the work you are reading would go a long way towards establishing context. That being said, I think that if you carefully read the definitions provided to you, the question answers itself.
$endgroup$
– Xander Henderson
1 hour ago
add a comment |
3
$begingroup$
See Countable set : "In mathematics, a countable set is a set with the same cardinality (number of elements) as some subset of the set of natural numbers. A countable set is either a finite set or a countably infinite set."
$endgroup$
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
I have voted to close this question for lacking context. To better answer your question, it would be necessary to know how the authors of the text you are reading have defined "countable". Some authors define it to mean "of cardinality equal to the natural numbers," while others define it to mean "of cardinality less than or equal to the natural numbers". A citation to the work you are reading would go a long way towards establishing context. That being said, I think that if you carefully read the definitions provided to you, the question answers itself.
$endgroup$
– Xander Henderson
1 hour ago
3
3
$begingroup$
See Countable set : "In mathematics, a countable set is a set with the same cardinality (number of elements) as some subset of the set of natural numbers. A countable set is either a finite set or a countably infinite set."
$endgroup$
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
See Countable set : "In mathematics, a countable set is a set with the same cardinality (number of elements) as some subset of the set of natural numbers. A countable set is either a finite set or a countably infinite set."
$endgroup$
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
I have voted to close this question for lacking context. To better answer your question, it would be necessary to know how the authors of the text you are reading have defined "countable". Some authors define it to mean "of cardinality equal to the natural numbers," while others define it to mean "of cardinality less than or equal to the natural numbers". A citation to the work you are reading would go a long way towards establishing context. That being said, I think that if you carefully read the definitions provided to you, the question answers itself.
$endgroup$
– Xander Henderson
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
I have voted to close this question for lacking context. To better answer your question, it would be necessary to know how the authors of the text you are reading have defined "countable". Some authors define it to mean "of cardinality equal to the natural numbers," while others define it to mean "of cardinality less than or equal to the natural numbers". A citation to the work you are reading would go a long way towards establishing context. That being said, I think that if you carefully read the definitions provided to you, the question answers itself.
$endgroup$
– Xander Henderson
1 hour ago
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Unfortunately, there is no uniform agreement to the meaning of "countable". Specifically, does it mean only countably infinite, or do we include also finite sets?
Well. The answer depends on context, convenience, and author. Sometimes it's easier to separate the finite and infinite, and sometimes it's clearer if we lump them together.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
every finite set is countable.
$endgroup$
– Zest
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Yes. Except for when you define countable sets as those sets which are in bijection with $omega$.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Honestly, I'm not sure why people downvoted this. The question is literally asking about the confusion whether or not an injection or a bijection is enough to prove a set is countable. This is literally about the definition of being countable.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
it wasn't me though. my answer got downvoted too.
$endgroup$
– Zest
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If $B$ is countable denote it $B = b_n_n in mathbbN$.
If $f : A to B$ is injective for all $a in A$ there is a $b_n = a$. Since the map is injective two different elements in $A$ map to different points in $B$, so can you see how to enumerate $A$ now?
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider this:
Let $A$ be an arbitrary set, $M$ be a countable set and $f:A to M$ injective.
It holds that the preimage $f^-1(m_i) in A$ of each $m_i in M$ ($i=1,2,...$) is a single pointed set.
In other words: each individual element $m_i in M$ has an individual preimage $f^-1(m_i) = a_i subset A$
Since $M = bigcup_i^nm_i$ was countable, $$f^-1(M) = f^-1left(bigcup_i^nm_iright) = left(bigcup_if^-1m_iright)= bigcup_i=1^na_i = A$$ is countable itself.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Use induction! Well, more conveniently, in well ordering-principle form.
Suppose that $f:Ato N'$ is a bijection (basically $N'$ is the range of $A$) where $N'subseteq mathbbN$. Now we consider elements in $N'$. Take the smallest element in $N'$ (which exists by the well-ordering principle), say $x_1$. Then consider the second smallest element (which exists because $N'backslashx_1$ is a set), and call this $x_2$. Repeat with $x_3$, etc. (if we ever run out of elements in $N'$ then we know $A$ is finite which is fine).
Now we know that $f:Ato x_i: iinmathbbN$ is a bijection. This is good news, because this is a bijection from $A$ to $mathbbN$ if you think about it carefully. In other words, ordering our set $N'$ from smallest to largest makes it a bijection to $N$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Unfortunately, there is no uniform agreement to the meaning of "countable". Specifically, does it mean only countably infinite, or do we include also finite sets?
Well. The answer depends on context, convenience, and author. Sometimes it's easier to separate the finite and infinite, and sometimes it's clearer if we lump them together.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
every finite set is countable.
$endgroup$
– Zest
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Yes. Except for when you define countable sets as those sets which are in bijection with $omega$.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Honestly, I'm not sure why people downvoted this. The question is literally asking about the confusion whether or not an injection or a bijection is enough to prove a set is countable. This is literally about the definition of being countable.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
it wasn't me though. my answer got downvoted too.
$endgroup$
– Zest
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Unfortunately, there is no uniform agreement to the meaning of "countable". Specifically, does it mean only countably infinite, or do we include also finite sets?
Well. The answer depends on context, convenience, and author. Sometimes it's easier to separate the finite and infinite, and sometimes it's clearer if we lump them together.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
every finite set is countable.
$endgroup$
– Zest
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Yes. Except for when you define countable sets as those sets which are in bijection with $omega$.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Honestly, I'm not sure why people downvoted this. The question is literally asking about the confusion whether or not an injection or a bijection is enough to prove a set is countable. This is literally about the definition of being countable.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
it wasn't me though. my answer got downvoted too.
$endgroup$
– Zest
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Unfortunately, there is no uniform agreement to the meaning of "countable". Specifically, does it mean only countably infinite, or do we include also finite sets?
Well. The answer depends on context, convenience, and author. Sometimes it's easier to separate the finite and infinite, and sometimes it's clearer if we lump them together.
$endgroup$
Unfortunately, there is no uniform agreement to the meaning of "countable". Specifically, does it mean only countably infinite, or do we include also finite sets?
Well. The answer depends on context, convenience, and author. Sometimes it's easier to separate the finite and infinite, and sometimes it's clearer if we lump them together.
answered 2 hours ago
Asaf Karagila♦Asaf Karagila
311k33444776
311k33444776
$begingroup$
every finite set is countable.
$endgroup$
– Zest
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Yes. Except for when you define countable sets as those sets which are in bijection with $omega$.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Honestly, I'm not sure why people downvoted this. The question is literally asking about the confusion whether or not an injection or a bijection is enough to prove a set is countable. This is literally about the definition of being countable.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
it wasn't me though. my answer got downvoted too.
$endgroup$
– Zest
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
every finite set is countable.
$endgroup$
– Zest
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Yes. Except for when you define countable sets as those sets which are in bijection with $omega$.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Honestly, I'm not sure why people downvoted this. The question is literally asking about the confusion whether or not an injection or a bijection is enough to prove a set is countable. This is literally about the definition of being countable.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
it wasn't me though. my answer got downvoted too.
$endgroup$
– Zest
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
every finite set is countable.
$endgroup$
– Zest
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
every finite set is countable.
$endgroup$
– Zest
2 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Yes. Except for when you define countable sets as those sets which are in bijection with $omega$.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Yes. Except for when you define countable sets as those sets which are in bijection with $omega$.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Honestly, I'm not sure why people downvoted this. The question is literally asking about the confusion whether or not an injection or a bijection is enough to prove a set is countable. This is literally about the definition of being countable.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Honestly, I'm not sure why people downvoted this. The question is literally asking about the confusion whether or not an injection or a bijection is enough to prove a set is countable. This is literally about the definition of being countable.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila♦
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
it wasn't me though. my answer got downvoted too.
$endgroup$
– Zest
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
it wasn't me though. my answer got downvoted too.
$endgroup$
– Zest
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If $B$ is countable denote it $B = b_n_n in mathbbN$.
If $f : A to B$ is injective for all $a in A$ there is a $b_n = a$. Since the map is injective two different elements in $A$ map to different points in $B$, so can you see how to enumerate $A$ now?
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If $B$ is countable denote it $B = b_n_n in mathbbN$.
If $f : A to B$ is injective for all $a in A$ there is a $b_n = a$. Since the map is injective two different elements in $A$ map to different points in $B$, so can you see how to enumerate $A$ now?
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If $B$ is countable denote it $B = b_n_n in mathbbN$.
If $f : A to B$ is injective for all $a in A$ there is a $b_n = a$. Since the map is injective two different elements in $A$ map to different points in $B$, so can you see how to enumerate $A$ now?
$endgroup$
If $B$ is countable denote it $B = b_n_n in mathbbN$.
If $f : A to B$ is injective for all $a in A$ there is a $b_n = a$. Since the map is injective two different elements in $A$ map to different points in $B$, so can you see how to enumerate $A$ now?
answered 2 hours ago
MariahMariah
2,1431718
2,1431718
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider this:
Let $A$ be an arbitrary set, $M$ be a countable set and $f:A to M$ injective.
It holds that the preimage $f^-1(m_i) in A$ of each $m_i in M$ ($i=1,2,...$) is a single pointed set.
In other words: each individual element $m_i in M$ has an individual preimage $f^-1(m_i) = a_i subset A$
Since $M = bigcup_i^nm_i$ was countable, $$f^-1(M) = f^-1left(bigcup_i^nm_iright) = left(bigcup_if^-1m_iright)= bigcup_i=1^na_i = A$$ is countable itself.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider this:
Let $A$ be an arbitrary set, $M$ be a countable set and $f:A to M$ injective.
It holds that the preimage $f^-1(m_i) in A$ of each $m_i in M$ ($i=1,2,...$) is a single pointed set.
In other words: each individual element $m_i in M$ has an individual preimage $f^-1(m_i) = a_i subset A$
Since $M = bigcup_i^nm_i$ was countable, $$f^-1(M) = f^-1left(bigcup_i^nm_iright) = left(bigcup_if^-1m_iright)= bigcup_i=1^na_i = A$$ is countable itself.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider this:
Let $A$ be an arbitrary set, $M$ be a countable set and $f:A to M$ injective.
It holds that the preimage $f^-1(m_i) in A$ of each $m_i in M$ ($i=1,2,...$) is a single pointed set.
In other words: each individual element $m_i in M$ has an individual preimage $f^-1(m_i) = a_i subset A$
Since $M = bigcup_i^nm_i$ was countable, $$f^-1(M) = f^-1left(bigcup_i^nm_iright) = left(bigcup_if^-1m_iright)= bigcup_i=1^na_i = A$$ is countable itself.
$endgroup$
Consider this:
Let $A$ be an arbitrary set, $M$ be a countable set and $f:A to M$ injective.
It holds that the preimage $f^-1(m_i) in A$ of each $m_i in M$ ($i=1,2,...$) is a single pointed set.
In other words: each individual element $m_i in M$ has an individual preimage $f^-1(m_i) = a_i subset A$
Since $M = bigcup_i^nm_i$ was countable, $$f^-1(M) = f^-1left(bigcup_i^nm_iright) = left(bigcup_if^-1m_iright)= bigcup_i=1^na_i = A$$ is countable itself.
answered 2 hours ago
ZestZest
314213
314213
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Use induction! Well, more conveniently, in well ordering-principle form.
Suppose that $f:Ato N'$ is a bijection (basically $N'$ is the range of $A$) where $N'subseteq mathbbN$. Now we consider elements in $N'$. Take the smallest element in $N'$ (which exists by the well-ordering principle), say $x_1$. Then consider the second smallest element (which exists because $N'backslashx_1$ is a set), and call this $x_2$. Repeat with $x_3$, etc. (if we ever run out of elements in $N'$ then we know $A$ is finite which is fine).
Now we know that $f:Ato x_i: iinmathbbN$ is a bijection. This is good news, because this is a bijection from $A$ to $mathbbN$ if you think about it carefully. In other words, ordering our set $N'$ from smallest to largest makes it a bijection to $N$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Use induction! Well, more conveniently, in well ordering-principle form.
Suppose that $f:Ato N'$ is a bijection (basically $N'$ is the range of $A$) where $N'subseteq mathbbN$. Now we consider elements in $N'$. Take the smallest element in $N'$ (which exists by the well-ordering principle), say $x_1$. Then consider the second smallest element (which exists because $N'backslashx_1$ is a set), and call this $x_2$. Repeat with $x_3$, etc. (if we ever run out of elements in $N'$ then we know $A$ is finite which is fine).
Now we know that $f:Ato x_i: iinmathbbN$ is a bijection. This is good news, because this is a bijection from $A$ to $mathbbN$ if you think about it carefully. In other words, ordering our set $N'$ from smallest to largest makes it a bijection to $N$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Use induction! Well, more conveniently, in well ordering-principle form.
Suppose that $f:Ato N'$ is a bijection (basically $N'$ is the range of $A$) where $N'subseteq mathbbN$. Now we consider elements in $N'$. Take the smallest element in $N'$ (which exists by the well-ordering principle), say $x_1$. Then consider the second smallest element (which exists because $N'backslashx_1$ is a set), and call this $x_2$. Repeat with $x_3$, etc. (if we ever run out of elements in $N'$ then we know $A$ is finite which is fine).
Now we know that $f:Ato x_i: iinmathbbN$ is a bijection. This is good news, because this is a bijection from $A$ to $mathbbN$ if you think about it carefully. In other words, ordering our set $N'$ from smallest to largest makes it a bijection to $N$.
$endgroup$
Use induction! Well, more conveniently, in well ordering-principle form.
Suppose that $f:Ato N'$ is a bijection (basically $N'$ is the range of $A$) where $N'subseteq mathbbN$. Now we consider elements in $N'$. Take the smallest element in $N'$ (which exists by the well-ordering principle), say $x_1$. Then consider the second smallest element (which exists because $N'backslashx_1$ is a set), and call this $x_2$. Repeat with $x_3$, etc. (if we ever run out of elements in $N'$ then we know $A$ is finite which is fine).
Now we know that $f:Ato x_i: iinmathbbN$ is a bijection. This is good news, because this is a bijection from $A$ to $mathbbN$ if you think about it carefully. In other words, ordering our set $N'$ from smallest to largest makes it a bijection to $N$.
answered 2 hours ago
WenWen
1,712417
1,712417
add a comment |
add a comment |
gallileo22 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
gallileo22 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
gallileo22 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
gallileo22 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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$begingroup$
See Countable set : "In mathematics, a countable set is a set with the same cardinality (number of elements) as some subset of the set of natural numbers. A countable set is either a finite set or a countably infinite set."
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– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
I have voted to close this question for lacking context. To better answer your question, it would be necessary to know how the authors of the text you are reading have defined "countable". Some authors define it to mean "of cardinality equal to the natural numbers," while others define it to mean "of cardinality less than or equal to the natural numbers". A citation to the work you are reading would go a long way towards establishing context. That being said, I think that if you carefully read the definitions provided to you, the question answers itself.
$endgroup$
– Xander Henderson
1 hour ago