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Why is this integration method not valid?
Evaluate $int cos^3 x;sin^2 xdx$Indefinite integral with product rule$int sqrtfracxx+1dx$How can I integrate $int1over 2x+2$Why does Wolfram Alpha mess up $int sin(pi t)cos(pi t)dt$?Integrate $intfracsin(2x)2+cos x dx$Why is this substitution not valid?Why does this type of substitution work in integration?What is wrong with my method of solving $int 7tsin^2(t) dt $?Why can we substitute in integrals but not derivatives?
$begingroup$
Let $$I=int fracsin xcos x + sin x dx$$
Now let $$u=fracpi2 - x$$ so $$I=int frac-sin (fracpi2 - u)cos (fracpi2 - u)+sin (fracpi2 - u) du$$
$$=intfrac-cos usin u + cos u du$$
$$= intfrac-cos xsin x + cos x dx$$
and hence $$2I=intfracsin x - cos xsin x + cos x dx$$
$$=-ln |sin x + cos x| + c$$
$implies I=-frac12ln |sin x + cos x| + c$
But the actual answer is $$I= frac12x -frac12ln |sin x + cos x| + c$$
according to Wolfram Alpha and verified by a different method.
Why does my method not yield the correct result?
integration substitution
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $$I=int fracsin xcos x + sin x dx$$
Now let $$u=fracpi2 - x$$ so $$I=int frac-sin (fracpi2 - u)cos (fracpi2 - u)+sin (fracpi2 - u) du$$
$$=intfrac-cos usin u + cos u du$$
$$= intfrac-cos xsin x + cos x dx$$
and hence $$2I=intfracsin x - cos xsin x + cos x dx$$
$$=-ln |sin x + cos x| + c$$
$implies I=-frac12ln |sin x + cos x| + c$
But the actual answer is $$I= frac12x -frac12ln |sin x + cos x| + c$$
according to Wolfram Alpha and verified by a different method.
Why does my method not yield the correct result?
integration substitution
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Try differentiating your answer and see where it goes wrong.
$endgroup$
– Arthur
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I don't think indefinite integrals can be added like that. You don't know the limits, and applying the change of variable $xto u$ might make the limits of integration different, in which case addition will not be possible.
$endgroup$
– Shubham Johri
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Arthur I can see how the differentiation gets a different result but I can't see why the original integration method is incorrect
$endgroup$
– LJD200
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@ShubhamJohri I felt it might be that but Wikipedia suggests that indefinite integrals can be added without issue and I can't find any specific rule prohibiting it
$endgroup$
– LJD200
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Yes, $int f+g=int f+int g$ where $f$ and $g$ are integrated over the same interval. Here, you don't know if that assumption is true.
$endgroup$
– Shubham Johri
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $$I=int fracsin xcos x + sin x dx$$
Now let $$u=fracpi2 - x$$ so $$I=int frac-sin (fracpi2 - u)cos (fracpi2 - u)+sin (fracpi2 - u) du$$
$$=intfrac-cos usin u + cos u du$$
$$= intfrac-cos xsin x + cos x dx$$
and hence $$2I=intfracsin x - cos xsin x + cos x dx$$
$$=-ln |sin x + cos x| + c$$
$implies I=-frac12ln |sin x + cos x| + c$
But the actual answer is $$I= frac12x -frac12ln |sin x + cos x| + c$$
according to Wolfram Alpha and verified by a different method.
Why does my method not yield the correct result?
integration substitution
$endgroup$
Let $$I=int fracsin xcos x + sin x dx$$
Now let $$u=fracpi2 - x$$ so $$I=int frac-sin (fracpi2 - u)cos (fracpi2 - u)+sin (fracpi2 - u) du$$
$$=intfrac-cos usin u + cos u du$$
$$= intfrac-cos xsin x + cos x dx$$
and hence $$2I=intfracsin x - cos xsin x + cos x dx$$
$$=-ln |sin x + cos x| + c$$
$implies I=-frac12ln |sin x + cos x| + c$
But the actual answer is $$I= frac12x -frac12ln |sin x + cos x| + c$$
according to Wolfram Alpha and verified by a different method.
Why does my method not yield the correct result?
integration substitution
integration substitution
edited 2 hours ago
user376343
4,2034829
4,2034829
asked 2 hours ago
LJD200LJD200
18316
18316
$begingroup$
Try differentiating your answer and see where it goes wrong.
$endgroup$
– Arthur
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I don't think indefinite integrals can be added like that. You don't know the limits, and applying the change of variable $xto u$ might make the limits of integration different, in which case addition will not be possible.
$endgroup$
– Shubham Johri
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Arthur I can see how the differentiation gets a different result but I can't see why the original integration method is incorrect
$endgroup$
– LJD200
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@ShubhamJohri I felt it might be that but Wikipedia suggests that indefinite integrals can be added without issue and I can't find any specific rule prohibiting it
$endgroup$
– LJD200
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Yes, $int f+g=int f+int g$ where $f$ and $g$ are integrated over the same interval. Here, you don't know if that assumption is true.
$endgroup$
– Shubham Johri
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Try differentiating your answer and see where it goes wrong.
$endgroup$
– Arthur
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I don't think indefinite integrals can be added like that. You don't know the limits, and applying the change of variable $xto u$ might make the limits of integration different, in which case addition will not be possible.
$endgroup$
– Shubham Johri
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Arthur I can see how the differentiation gets a different result but I can't see why the original integration method is incorrect
$endgroup$
– LJD200
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@ShubhamJohri I felt it might be that but Wikipedia suggests that indefinite integrals can be added without issue and I can't find any specific rule prohibiting it
$endgroup$
– LJD200
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Yes, $int f+g=int f+int g$ where $f$ and $g$ are integrated over the same interval. Here, you don't know if that assumption is true.
$endgroup$
– Shubham Johri
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Try differentiating your answer and see where it goes wrong.
$endgroup$
– Arthur
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Try differentiating your answer and see where it goes wrong.
$endgroup$
– Arthur
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I don't think indefinite integrals can be added like that. You don't know the limits, and applying the change of variable $xto u$ might make the limits of integration different, in which case addition will not be possible.
$endgroup$
– Shubham Johri
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I don't think indefinite integrals can be added like that. You don't know the limits, and applying the change of variable $xto u$ might make the limits of integration different, in which case addition will not be possible.
$endgroup$
– Shubham Johri
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Arthur I can see how the differentiation gets a different result but I can't see why the original integration method is incorrect
$endgroup$
– LJD200
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@Arthur I can see how the differentiation gets a different result but I can't see why the original integration method is incorrect
$endgroup$
– LJD200
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@ShubhamJohri I felt it might be that but Wikipedia suggests that indefinite integrals can be added without issue and I can't find any specific rule prohibiting it
$endgroup$
– LJD200
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@ShubhamJohri I felt it might be that but Wikipedia suggests that indefinite integrals can be added without issue and I can't find any specific rule prohibiting it
$endgroup$
– LJD200
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Yes, $int f+g=int f+int g$ where $f$ and $g$ are integrated over the same interval. Here, you don't know if that assumption is true.
$endgroup$
– Shubham Johri
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Yes, $int f+g=int f+int g$ where $f$ and $g$ are integrated over the same interval. Here, you don't know if that assumption is true.
$endgroup$
– Shubham Johri
1 hour ago
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
You have not paid enough attention to the limits of your integration - the two integrals you are adding are not over the same interval.
The method to use here is quite similar to yours in using the same trick correctly, without disturbing the interval of integration:
$$frac2sin xsin x + cos x=frac sin x +cos xsin x +cos x+frac sin x - cos xsin x + cos x$$
You might need a little more explanation of the interval issue.
Integrals are additive in two ways.
First, if the same function is integrated over disjoint intervals (later measurable sets) then we can integrate over the union of the intervals and the integral over the whole is the sum of the integrals over the parts.
Second, if we integrate different functions over the same interval (measurable set), the sum of the integrals is equal to the integral of the sum of the functions.
Apply your method to the integral of $x^2$ and use the substitution $y=-x$. The integral you get is the integral of $-x^2$. Adding the two you get twice the integral is zero, which is nonsense, because the function you are integrating is positive except at $x=0$. What has happened here is that you have swapped the limits of integration, and you need to reverse the sign to straighten them out.
Your method has both reversed the limits and translated them by $frac pi 2$. You can't add the integrals in this case and expected to get the right answer.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Nice explanation. +1
$endgroup$
– Vizag
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Going by the logic you have used, if we subtract the two equations, we'll get:
$$0 = int 1 dx $$
Which is certainly wrong.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$$int_a^bfracsin xcos x + sin xdxneq int_a^bfrac-cos xcos x + sin xdx$$
but
$$int_a^bfracsin xcos x + sin xdx= int_pi/2-a^pi/2-bfrac-cos xcos x + sin xdx$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The incorrect part is assuming: $$intfrac-cos usin u + cos u du=intfrac-cos xsin x + cos x dx$$
One is depending on $x$ while the other one depends on $u$.
Integrating an indefinite integral it's like having a function that depends on a parameter, and we can look at it as the opposite of the derivative (not as computing the surface under some function).
Yes, for a definite integral we have:$$int_a^b frac-cos usin u + cos u du=int_a^bfrac-cos xsin x + cos x dx$$
But that is because the definite integral computes the area and the result will always be a constant ($x$ and $u$ are dummy variables in this case).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
You have not paid enough attention to the limits of your integration - the two integrals you are adding are not over the same interval.
The method to use here is quite similar to yours in using the same trick correctly, without disturbing the interval of integration:
$$frac2sin xsin x + cos x=frac sin x +cos xsin x +cos x+frac sin x - cos xsin x + cos x$$
You might need a little more explanation of the interval issue.
Integrals are additive in two ways.
First, if the same function is integrated over disjoint intervals (later measurable sets) then we can integrate over the union of the intervals and the integral over the whole is the sum of the integrals over the parts.
Second, if we integrate different functions over the same interval (measurable set), the sum of the integrals is equal to the integral of the sum of the functions.
Apply your method to the integral of $x^2$ and use the substitution $y=-x$. The integral you get is the integral of $-x^2$. Adding the two you get twice the integral is zero, which is nonsense, because the function you are integrating is positive except at $x=0$. What has happened here is that you have swapped the limits of integration, and you need to reverse the sign to straighten them out.
Your method has both reversed the limits and translated them by $frac pi 2$. You can't add the integrals in this case and expected to get the right answer.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Nice explanation. +1
$endgroup$
– Vizag
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You have not paid enough attention to the limits of your integration - the two integrals you are adding are not over the same interval.
The method to use here is quite similar to yours in using the same trick correctly, without disturbing the interval of integration:
$$frac2sin xsin x + cos x=frac sin x +cos xsin x +cos x+frac sin x - cos xsin x + cos x$$
You might need a little more explanation of the interval issue.
Integrals are additive in two ways.
First, if the same function is integrated over disjoint intervals (later measurable sets) then we can integrate over the union of the intervals and the integral over the whole is the sum of the integrals over the parts.
Second, if we integrate different functions over the same interval (measurable set), the sum of the integrals is equal to the integral of the sum of the functions.
Apply your method to the integral of $x^2$ and use the substitution $y=-x$. The integral you get is the integral of $-x^2$. Adding the two you get twice the integral is zero, which is nonsense, because the function you are integrating is positive except at $x=0$. What has happened here is that you have swapped the limits of integration, and you need to reverse the sign to straighten them out.
Your method has both reversed the limits and translated them by $frac pi 2$. You can't add the integrals in this case and expected to get the right answer.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Nice explanation. +1
$endgroup$
– Vizag
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You have not paid enough attention to the limits of your integration - the two integrals you are adding are not over the same interval.
The method to use here is quite similar to yours in using the same trick correctly, without disturbing the interval of integration:
$$frac2sin xsin x + cos x=frac sin x +cos xsin x +cos x+frac sin x - cos xsin x + cos x$$
You might need a little more explanation of the interval issue.
Integrals are additive in two ways.
First, if the same function is integrated over disjoint intervals (later measurable sets) then we can integrate over the union of the intervals and the integral over the whole is the sum of the integrals over the parts.
Second, if we integrate different functions over the same interval (measurable set), the sum of the integrals is equal to the integral of the sum of the functions.
Apply your method to the integral of $x^2$ and use the substitution $y=-x$. The integral you get is the integral of $-x^2$. Adding the two you get twice the integral is zero, which is nonsense, because the function you are integrating is positive except at $x=0$. What has happened here is that you have swapped the limits of integration, and you need to reverse the sign to straighten them out.
Your method has both reversed the limits and translated them by $frac pi 2$. You can't add the integrals in this case and expected to get the right answer.
$endgroup$
You have not paid enough attention to the limits of your integration - the two integrals you are adding are not over the same interval.
The method to use here is quite similar to yours in using the same trick correctly, without disturbing the interval of integration:
$$frac2sin xsin x + cos x=frac sin x +cos xsin x +cos x+frac sin x - cos xsin x + cos x$$
You might need a little more explanation of the interval issue.
Integrals are additive in two ways.
First, if the same function is integrated over disjoint intervals (later measurable sets) then we can integrate over the union of the intervals and the integral over the whole is the sum of the integrals over the parts.
Second, if we integrate different functions over the same interval (measurable set), the sum of the integrals is equal to the integral of the sum of the functions.
Apply your method to the integral of $x^2$ and use the substitution $y=-x$. The integral you get is the integral of $-x^2$. Adding the two you get twice the integral is zero, which is nonsense, because the function you are integrating is positive except at $x=0$. What has happened here is that you have swapped the limits of integration, and you need to reverse the sign to straighten them out.
Your method has both reversed the limits and translated them by $frac pi 2$. You can't add the integrals in this case and expected to get the right answer.
edited 1 hour ago
answered 1 hour ago
Mark BennetMark Bennet
82.7k985183
82.7k985183
$begingroup$
Nice explanation. +1
$endgroup$
– Vizag
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Nice explanation. +1
$endgroup$
– Vizag
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Nice explanation. +1
$endgroup$
– Vizag
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Nice explanation. +1
$endgroup$
– Vizag
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Going by the logic you have used, if we subtract the two equations, we'll get:
$$0 = int 1 dx $$
Which is certainly wrong.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Going by the logic you have used, if we subtract the two equations, we'll get:
$$0 = int 1 dx $$
Which is certainly wrong.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Going by the logic you have used, if we subtract the two equations, we'll get:
$$0 = int 1 dx $$
Which is certainly wrong.
$endgroup$
Going by the logic you have used, if we subtract the two equations, we'll get:
$$0 = int 1 dx $$
Which is certainly wrong.
answered 1 hour ago
VizagVizag
1,481314
1,481314
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$$int_a^bfracsin xcos x + sin xdxneq int_a^bfrac-cos xcos x + sin xdx$$
but
$$int_a^bfracsin xcos x + sin xdx= int_pi/2-a^pi/2-bfrac-cos xcos x + sin xdx$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$$int_a^bfracsin xcos x + sin xdxneq int_a^bfrac-cos xcos x + sin xdx$$
but
$$int_a^bfracsin xcos x + sin xdx= int_pi/2-a^pi/2-bfrac-cos xcos x + sin xdx$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$$int_a^bfracsin xcos x + sin xdxneq int_a^bfrac-cos xcos x + sin xdx$$
but
$$int_a^bfracsin xcos x + sin xdx= int_pi/2-a^pi/2-bfrac-cos xcos x + sin xdx$$
$endgroup$
$$int_a^bfracsin xcos x + sin xdxneq int_a^bfrac-cos xcos x + sin xdx$$
but
$$int_a^bfracsin xcos x + sin xdx= int_pi/2-a^pi/2-bfrac-cos xcos x + sin xdx$$
edited 1 hour ago
answered 1 hour ago
E.H.EE.H.E
17.9k11969
17.9k11969
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The incorrect part is assuming: $$intfrac-cos usin u + cos u du=intfrac-cos xsin x + cos x dx$$
One is depending on $x$ while the other one depends on $u$.
Integrating an indefinite integral it's like having a function that depends on a parameter, and we can look at it as the opposite of the derivative (not as computing the surface under some function).
Yes, for a definite integral we have:$$int_a^b frac-cos usin u + cos u du=int_a^bfrac-cos xsin x + cos x dx$$
But that is because the definite integral computes the area and the result will always be a constant ($x$ and $u$ are dummy variables in this case).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The incorrect part is assuming: $$intfrac-cos usin u + cos u du=intfrac-cos xsin x + cos x dx$$
One is depending on $x$ while the other one depends on $u$.
Integrating an indefinite integral it's like having a function that depends on a parameter, and we can look at it as the opposite of the derivative (not as computing the surface under some function).
Yes, for a definite integral we have:$$int_a^b frac-cos usin u + cos u du=int_a^bfrac-cos xsin x + cos x dx$$
But that is because the definite integral computes the area and the result will always be a constant ($x$ and $u$ are dummy variables in this case).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The incorrect part is assuming: $$intfrac-cos usin u + cos u du=intfrac-cos xsin x + cos x dx$$
One is depending on $x$ while the other one depends on $u$.
Integrating an indefinite integral it's like having a function that depends on a parameter, and we can look at it as the opposite of the derivative (not as computing the surface under some function).
Yes, for a definite integral we have:$$int_a^b frac-cos usin u + cos u du=int_a^bfrac-cos xsin x + cos x dx$$
But that is because the definite integral computes the area and the result will always be a constant ($x$ and $u$ are dummy variables in this case).
$endgroup$
The incorrect part is assuming: $$intfrac-cos usin u + cos u du=intfrac-cos xsin x + cos x dx$$
One is depending on $x$ while the other one depends on $u$.
Integrating an indefinite integral it's like having a function that depends on a parameter, and we can look at it as the opposite of the derivative (not as computing the surface under some function).
Yes, for a definite integral we have:$$int_a^b frac-cos usin u + cos u du=int_a^bfrac-cos xsin x + cos x dx$$
But that is because the definite integral computes the area and the result will always be a constant ($x$ and $u$ are dummy variables in this case).
answered 1 hour ago
Three sided coinThree sided coin
44011
44011
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Try differentiating your answer and see where it goes wrong.
$endgroup$
– Arthur
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I don't think indefinite integrals can be added like that. You don't know the limits, and applying the change of variable $xto u$ might make the limits of integration different, in which case addition will not be possible.
$endgroup$
– Shubham Johri
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Arthur I can see how the differentiation gets a different result but I can't see why the original integration method is incorrect
$endgroup$
– LJD200
1 hour ago
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@ShubhamJohri I felt it might be that but Wikipedia suggests that indefinite integrals can be added without issue and I can't find any specific rule prohibiting it
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– LJD200
1 hour ago
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Yes, $int f+g=int f+int g$ where $f$ and $g$ are integrated over the same interval. Here, you don't know if that assumption is true.
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– Shubham Johri
1 hour ago