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How can I safely determine the output voltage and current of a transformer?

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1

$begingroup$

So I am building a Tesla coil with my partner for a senior design project.

We safely ripped out a transformer from a microwave oven. However, after a good amount of research, we were unable to find the maximum output values from the transformer. We know the input values, the standard 120 V and 60 Hz from a US outlet. We need to know the max/peak kV to figure out the capacitance we will need for our primary coil that we need to construct.

Here is what it looks like:

power-supply transformer high-voltage tesla-coil

share|improve this question

edited 3 hours ago

Greenonline

1,08921024

asked 3 hours ago

Krutik ShahKrutik Shah

62

New contributor

Krutik Shah is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  We safely ripped out a transformer from a microwave oven Sure but the safety ends at the very moment when you connect the 120 V AC input to mains voltage when you want to use this transformer. Microwave transformers are designed to deliver a high voltage at significant current levels. Because that's the power going into the Magnetron tube. If you have to ask the rating of this transformer I seriously advise you to first get more experience with (high voltage) electronics before you continue.
  $endgroup$
  – Bimpelrekkie
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  To be clear: without knowing exactly what you're doing you should not mess with the transformer from any microwave oven. They're LETHAL when connected to AC mains. Are you an electrical engineer? No, then leave these transformers alone. Even electrical engineers don't mess with these.
  $endgroup$
  – Bimpelrekkie
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  well we were going to make a faraday cage and enclose the coil inside it before plugging in to the outlet. we can also just make a small-scale tesla coil without having to deal with these big transformers, a student from a previous year did it and we have been using it as a reference but we're not exactly sure how it is getting the job done with only the 120 V input thats connected straight to what looks like the primary winding.
  $endgroup$
  – Krutik Shah
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

1

$begingroup$

So I am building a Tesla coil with my partner for a senior design project.

We safely ripped out a transformer from a microwave oven. However, after a good amount of research, we were unable to find the maximum output values from the transformer. We know the input values, the standard 120 V and 60 Hz from a US outlet. We need to know the max/peak kV to figure out the capacitance we will need for our primary coil that we need to construct.

Here is what it looks like:

power-supply transformer high-voltage tesla-coil

share|improve this question

edited 3 hours ago

Greenonline

1,08921024

asked 3 hours ago

Krutik ShahKrutik Shah

62

New contributor

Krutik Shah is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  We safely ripped out a transformer from a microwave oven Sure but the safety ends at the very moment when you connect the 120 V AC input to mains voltage when you want to use this transformer. Microwave transformers are designed to deliver a high voltage at significant current levels. Because that's the power going into the Magnetron tube. If you have to ask the rating of this transformer I seriously advise you to first get more experience with (high voltage) electronics before you continue.
  $endgroup$
  – Bimpelrekkie
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  To be clear: without knowing exactly what you're doing you should not mess with the transformer from any microwave oven. They're LETHAL when connected to AC mains. Are you an electrical engineer? No, then leave these transformers alone. Even electrical engineers don't mess with these.
  $endgroup$
  – Bimpelrekkie
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  well we were going to make a faraday cage and enclose the coil inside it before plugging in to the outlet. we can also just make a small-scale tesla coil without having to deal with these big transformers, a student from a previous year did it and we have been using it as a reference but we're not exactly sure how it is getting the job done with only the 120 V input thats connected straight to what looks like the primary winding.
  $endgroup$
  – Krutik Shah
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

So I am building a Tesla coil with my partner for a senior design project.

We safely ripped out a transformer from a microwave oven. However, after a good amount of research, we were unable to find the maximum output values from the transformer. We know the input values, the standard 120 V and 60 Hz from a US outlet. We need to know the max/peak kV to figure out the capacitance we will need for our primary coil that we need to construct.

Here is what it looks like:

power-supply transformer high-voltage tesla-coil

share|improve this question

edited 3 hours ago

Greenonline

1,08921024

asked 3 hours ago

Krutik ShahKrutik Shah

62

New contributor

Krutik Shah is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

$endgroup$

share|improve this question

edited 3 hours ago

Greenonline

1,08921024

asked 3 hours ago

Krutik ShahKrutik Shah

62

New contributor

Krutik Shah is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

share|improve this question

edited 3 hours ago

Greenonline

1,08921024

asked 3 hours ago

Krutik ShahKrutik Shah

62

New contributor

Krutik Shah is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

edited 3 hours ago

Greenonline

1,08921024

edited 3 hours ago

Greenonline

1,08921024

asked 3 hours ago

Krutik ShahKrutik Shah

62

New contributor

Krutik Shah is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

asked 3 hours ago

Krutik ShahKrutik Shah

62

4 Answers
4

active

oldest

votes

3

$begingroup$

No. Do not use a Microwave Oven Transformer (MOT) for a Tesla coil.

It is the wrong impedance. The output voltage is too low (around 2kV), spark gaps will not fire reliably. The output current is too high (500mA), if it bites you, you will probably die.

The correct transformer to use is an old style (iron core) Neon Sign Transformer (NST). The output voltage of 15kV is plenty to make very forgiving spark gaps. The output current in the low tens of mA may well be survivable if it bites you.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Neil_UKNeil_UK

80.4k285185

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  For clarification, so a microwave transformer is not high enough voltage to easily make spark gaps, but at the same time high enough voltage to produce hazardous sparks and high enough power to have lethal levels of current behind those sparks?
  $endgroup$
  – Toor
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Toor There's a lot of technology to Tesla Coils, technology = knowledge of how to make them work. 2kV will jump very short gaps in air. However, making a reliable gap that size with big copper electrodes to dissipate the heat is hard, it's not something experienced coilers attempt, somebody with no experience is doooomed to failure. It is enough to jump through dry clothing, mains will not do that, which is why mains is relatively safe, and MOTs are lethal. Once an arc has started, that 500mA will start fires (1kW!) and is 10x the level needed to stop a heart.
  $endgroup$
  – Neil_UK
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Toor, 2 kV with current capability of 500 mA will easily kill you, and not by "sparks". It's volts that jolt, but mils that kill.
  $endgroup$
  – Michael Harvey
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @MichaelHarvey Isn't that what I said?
  $endgroup$
  – Toor
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  I can buy those newer NSTs but they have GFCI protection in them making them useless on a Tesla coil, although some have figured out a way to bypass that. iron core NSTs are far too expensive for our budget, at least the ones we've looked at. I can't find ones under $100
  $endgroup$
  – Krutik Shah
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 2 more comments

3

$begingroup$

6170W1D012G is an LG part number. Primary 120v. HT secondary is 2210v 500 mA. If you have to ask, as has been said, you do not know enough to do this safely.

share|improve this answer

edited 1 hour ago

answered 3 hours ago

Michael HarveyMichael Harvey

1465

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

0

$begingroup$

Consider exciting the high voltage secondary (at 60 Hz) and measuring primary voltage to get an idea of the turns ratio. It should be pretty simple math past that.

I agree with other comments that you might want more experience and/or meaningful oversight from your professors for this project.

share|improve this answer

edited 3 hours ago

answered 3 hours ago

MondayTuesdayWednesdayMondayTuesdayWednesday

11

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Sure but that does not tell us anything about the power rating of this transformer.
  $endgroup$
  – Bimpelrekkie
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  What was the power rating of the microwave? You probably can't establish a rating without input from the manufacturer, nameplate information, or testing and knowledge of the construction (insulation temp ratings mostly).
  $endgroup$
  – MondayTuesdayWednesday
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

0

$begingroup$

To answer the general question, to suss out the basic specs of a power transformer drive it backwards. This is how we did it in engineering school with pole transformers.

You apply 120vac to the HV secondary of the transformer, then measure the voltage on the primary. (Note: Be sure to fuse the 120v supply.) This will let you calculate the ratio of primary to secondary voltage. There was also a way to roughly calculate the current capacity while doing this, but it's been nearly 50 years, so I've forgotten that detail.

share|improve this answer

answered 23 mins ago

Hot LicksHot Licks

60548

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

protected by W5VO♦ 35 mins ago

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3

$begingroup$

No. Do not use a Microwave Oven Transformer (MOT) for a Tesla coil.

It is the wrong impedance. The output voltage is too low (around 2kV), spark gaps will not fire reliably. The output current is too high (500mA), if it bites you, you will probably die.

The correct transformer to use is an old style (iron core) Neon Sign Transformer (NST). The output voltage of 15kV is plenty to make very forgiving spark gaps. The output current in the low tens of mA may well be survivable if it bites you.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Neil_UKNeil_UK

80.4k285185

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  For clarification, so a microwave transformer is not high enough voltage to easily make spark gaps, but at the same time high enough voltage to produce hazardous sparks and high enough power to have lethal levels of current behind those sparks?
  $endgroup$
  – Toor
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Toor There's a lot of technology to Tesla Coils, technology = knowledge of how to make them work. 2kV will jump very short gaps in air. However, making a reliable gap that size with big copper electrodes to dissipate the heat is hard, it's not something experienced coilers attempt, somebody with no experience is doooomed to failure. It is enough to jump through dry clothing, mains will not do that, which is why mains is relatively safe, and MOTs are lethal. Once an arc has started, that 500mA will start fires (1kW!) and is 10x the level needed to stop a heart.
  $endgroup$
  – Neil_UK
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Toor, 2 kV with current capability of 500 mA will easily kill you, and not by "sparks". It's volts that jolt, but mils that kill.
  $endgroup$
  – Michael Harvey
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @MichaelHarvey Isn't that what I said?
  $endgroup$
  – Toor
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  I can buy those newer NSTs but they have GFCI protection in them making them useless on a Tesla coil, although some have figured out a way to bypass that. iron core NSTs are far too expensive for our budget, at least the ones we've looked at. I can't find ones under $100
  $endgroup$
  – Krutik Shah
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 2 more comments

3

$begingroup$

No. Do not use a Microwave Oven Transformer (MOT) for a Tesla coil.

It is the wrong impedance. The output voltage is too low (around 2kV), spark gaps will not fire reliably. The output current is too high (500mA), if it bites you, you will probably die.

The correct transformer to use is an old style (iron core) Neon Sign Transformer (NST). The output voltage of 15kV is plenty to make very forgiving spark gaps. The output current in the low tens of mA may well be survivable if it bites you.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Neil_UKNeil_UK

80.4k285185

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  For clarification, so a microwave transformer is not high enough voltage to easily make spark gaps, but at the same time high enough voltage to produce hazardous sparks and high enough power to have lethal levels of current behind those sparks?
  $endgroup$
  – Toor
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Toor There's a lot of technology to Tesla Coils, technology = knowledge of how to make them work. 2kV will jump very short gaps in air. However, making a reliable gap that size with big copper electrodes to dissipate the heat is hard, it's not something experienced coilers attempt, somebody with no experience is doooomed to failure. It is enough to jump through dry clothing, mains will not do that, which is why mains is relatively safe, and MOTs are lethal. Once an arc has started, that 500mA will start fires (1kW!) and is 10x the level needed to stop a heart.
  $endgroup$
  – Neil_UK
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Toor, 2 kV with current capability of 500 mA will easily kill you, and not by "sparks". It's volts that jolt, but mils that kill.
  $endgroup$
  – Michael Harvey
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @MichaelHarvey Isn't that what I said?
  $endgroup$
  – Toor
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  I can buy those newer NSTs but they have GFCI protection in them making them useless on a Tesla coil, although some have figured out a way to bypass that. iron core NSTs are far too expensive for our budget, at least the ones we've looked at. I can't find ones under $100
  $endgroup$
  – Krutik Shah
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 2 more comments

$begingroup$

No. Do not use a Microwave Oven Transformer (MOT) for a Tesla coil.

It is the wrong impedance. The output voltage is too low (around 2kV), spark gaps will not fire reliably. The output current is too high (500mA), if it bites you, you will probably die.

The correct transformer to use is an old style (iron core) Neon Sign Transformer (NST). The output voltage of 15kV is plenty to make very forgiving spark gaps. The output current in the low tens of mA may well be survivable if it bites you.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Neil_UKNeil_UK

80.4k285185

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Neil_UKNeil_UK

80.4k285185

answered 3 hours ago

Neil_UKNeil_UK

80.4k285185

answered 3 hours ago

Neil_UKNeil_UK

80.4k285185

3

$begingroup$

6170W1D012G is an LG part number. Primary 120v. HT secondary is 2210v 500 mA. If you have to ask, as has been said, you do not know enough to do this safely.

share|improve this answer

edited 1 hour ago

answered 3 hours ago

Michael HarveyMichael Harvey

1465

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

3

$begingroup$

6170W1D012G is an LG part number. Primary 120v. HT secondary is 2210v 500 mA. If you have to ask, as has been said, you do not know enough to do this safely.

share|improve this answer

edited 1 hour ago

answered 3 hours ago

Michael HarveyMichael Harvey

1465

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

6170W1D012G is an LG part number. Primary 120v. HT secondary is 2210v 500 mA. If you have to ask, as has been said, you do not know enough to do this safely.

share|improve this answer

edited 1 hour ago

answered 3 hours ago

Michael HarveyMichael Harvey

1465

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

edited 1 hour ago

answered 3 hours ago

Michael HarveyMichael Harvey

1465

answered 3 hours ago

Michael HarveyMichael Harvey

1465

answered 3 hours ago

Michael HarveyMichael Harvey

1465

0

$begingroup$

Consider exciting the high voltage secondary (at 60 Hz) and measuring primary voltage to get an idea of the turns ratio. It should be pretty simple math past that.

I agree with other comments that you might want more experience and/or meaningful oversight from your professors for this project.

share|improve this answer

edited 3 hours ago

answered 3 hours ago

MondayTuesdayWednesdayMondayTuesdayWednesday

11

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Sure but that does not tell us anything about the power rating of this transformer.
  $endgroup$
  – Bimpelrekkie
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  What was the power rating of the microwave? You probably can't establish a rating without input from the manufacturer, nameplate information, or testing and knowledge of the construction (insulation temp ratings mostly).
  $endgroup$
  – MondayTuesdayWednesday
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

0

$begingroup$

Consider exciting the high voltage secondary (at 60 Hz) and measuring primary voltage to get an idea of the turns ratio. It should be pretty simple math past that.

I agree with other comments that you might want more experience and/or meaningful oversight from your professors for this project.

share|improve this answer

edited 3 hours ago

answered 3 hours ago

MondayTuesdayWednesdayMondayTuesdayWednesday

11

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Sure but that does not tell us anything about the power rating of this transformer.
  $endgroup$
  – Bimpelrekkie
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  What was the power rating of the microwave? You probably can't establish a rating without input from the manufacturer, nameplate information, or testing and knowledge of the construction (insulation temp ratings mostly).
  $endgroup$
  – MondayTuesdayWednesday
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

Consider exciting the high voltage secondary (at 60 Hz) and measuring primary voltage to get an idea of the turns ratio. It should be pretty simple math past that.

I agree with other comments that you might want more experience and/or meaningful oversight from your professors for this project.

share|improve this answer

edited 3 hours ago

answered 3 hours ago

MondayTuesdayWednesdayMondayTuesdayWednesday

11

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

edited 3 hours ago

answered 3 hours ago

MondayTuesdayWednesdayMondayTuesdayWednesday

11

answered 3 hours ago

MondayTuesdayWednesdayMondayTuesdayWednesday

11

answered 3 hours ago

MondayTuesdayWednesdayMondayTuesdayWednesday

11

0

$begingroup$

To answer the general question, to suss out the basic specs of a power transformer drive it backwards. This is how we did it in engineering school with pole transformers.

You apply 120vac to the HV secondary of the transformer, then measure the voltage on the primary. (Note: Be sure to fuse the 120v supply.) This will let you calculate the ratio of primary to secondary voltage. There was also a way to roughly calculate the current capacity while doing this, but it's been nearly 50 years, so I've forgotten that detail.

share|improve this answer

answered 23 mins ago

Hot LicksHot Licks

60548

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

0

$begingroup$

To answer the general question, to suss out the basic specs of a power transformer drive it backwards. This is how we did it in engineering school with pole transformers.

You apply 120vac to the HV secondary of the transformer, then measure the voltage on the primary. (Note: Be sure to fuse the 120v supply.) This will let you calculate the ratio of primary to secondary voltage. There was also a way to roughly calculate the current capacity while doing this, but it's been nearly 50 years, so I've forgotten that detail.

share|improve this answer

answered 23 mins ago

Hot LicksHot Licks

60548

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

To answer the general question, to suss out the basic specs of a power transformer drive it backwards. This is how we did it in engineering school with pole transformers.

You apply 120vac to the HV secondary of the transformer, then measure the voltage on the primary. (Note: Be sure to fuse the 120v supply.) This will let you calculate the ratio of primary to secondary voltage. There was also a way to roughly calculate the current capacity while doing this, but it's been nearly 50 years, so I've forgotten that detail.

share|improve this answer

answered 23 mins ago

Hot LicksHot Licks

60548

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

answered 23 mins ago

Hot LicksHot Licks

60548

answered 23 mins ago

Hot LicksHot Licks

60548

answered 23 mins ago

Hot LicksHot Licks

60548