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Dealing with spaghetti codebase, manager asks for things I can't deliver


I was offered a manager role without additional pay or seniority after I recently was given a raise, should I ask for more?What can I do to improve a difficult coding environment due to lack of documentation?Had a job interview for a company in Germany and I live in Kosovo. What are some things to know about “international” interviews?Is it OK for a senior engineer to be involved only in design?How to deal with a boss who won't give me work?How to deal with coworkers who don't want to give code reviews?How do I improve on the feedback after a rejection?Dealing with a line manager with anger issuesHow can I deal with managers that refuse to accept use of common software engineering design patterns?Ethics of the “Duck Technique”






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








3















Apologies for the title. It's definitely not the best



Some context: I'm a newly hired developer (1.5 years) at a software testing company. For a while things were going great. I was able to dive in relatively quickly, but there have been some speed bumps.



In particular, I wrestle a lot with our codebase. It's particularly hairy (being written in C++, Ada and Python) and it's 20 years old at this point. Most frustratingly, there is very little to no established code ownership in a tool that spans over 1.5 million LOC. There is sort of an ad hoc understanding -- the tool can be separated into various modes, and same people tend to work on the same modes, but it's not always the case.



Recently, I've been asked to change, in a fundamental way, a part of the tool that is used in every single mode. It was attempted once by a senior developer a few years ago, but the design they used didn't pan out. Now they're asking me to do it.



I've designed and implemented changes to features before. I even implemented a feature that went unimplemented for a few years. But nothing this complicated. My boss seems very confident in my ability to do it, but it took me over a month to understand exactly how it would affect "my" part of the tool, and implement the change there.



Now, despite multiple attempts to ask my boss for help implementing the work in other parts of the tool, he insists that I must learn them and do it myself. I voiced concerns about code ownership, and maybe asking the people who work in that area to do some of it, but the response was that "they are busy and this is your task." It was made clear that I can ask questions, but as far as my main task, I'm on my own.



He's aware of how big this change is. He even says it himself, and tells me not to be hard on myself if it's taking a while. But despite his sympathies, the project just isn't getting done. There's just so much code, I can't even comprehend it all. Sometimes I will spend an entire day trying to map out a completely different part of the tool, trying to understand how my change will affect it, and I'll go home having accomplished almost nothing. Sometimes I'll make a design mistake, realize it, and have to completely start over. I walk in the next day, sit down, look at my notes and sigh. Hopefully I'll write some code.



I'm not sure if I'm being overly dramatic, but I just don't feel like I can do it anymore. On the rare occasion I get assigned a different task, I always knock it out quickly because it just feels like a breath of fresh air. But when I even think about my main task, it's so demoralizing that it makes me to want to find a new job.










share|improve this question









New contributor



Tyg13 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • 7





    Don't ask non-technical managers for technical advice. Ask one of the senior developers in your office for advice.

    – user1666620
    6 hours ago











  • He used to be one of the lead developers for the tool, for over 16 years. He knows the codebase sucks, but I think he's been removed from the problem for too long now (the past 4 years)

    – Tyg13
    6 hours ago











  • in that case, trust his judgement. Dwizums answer is probably the best advice here. Don't measure achievement by the amount of code you've written - I've lost count of the number of times I've spent days working on a single line of code solution.

    – user1666620
    5 hours ago







  • 1





    The question right now lacks specific thing you want help with. What do you want to happen? It sounds more like a rant right now with all due sympathy to your issue

    – aaaaaa
    3 hours ago











  • @aaaaaa Ideally, I'd like to be taken off this project. It's a lot of drudge work to get something that should have been in the tool in the first place. We've built onto a structure for years that now needs to be almost completely reworked. I don't think that's a change that a developer with a single year's experience with a massive codebase should be making. But I fear for the worst if I were to say this to my boss, verbatim

    – Tyg13
    2 hours ago


















3















Apologies for the title. It's definitely not the best



Some context: I'm a newly hired developer (1.5 years) at a software testing company. For a while things were going great. I was able to dive in relatively quickly, but there have been some speed bumps.



In particular, I wrestle a lot with our codebase. It's particularly hairy (being written in C++, Ada and Python) and it's 20 years old at this point. Most frustratingly, there is very little to no established code ownership in a tool that spans over 1.5 million LOC. There is sort of an ad hoc understanding -- the tool can be separated into various modes, and same people tend to work on the same modes, but it's not always the case.



Recently, I've been asked to change, in a fundamental way, a part of the tool that is used in every single mode. It was attempted once by a senior developer a few years ago, but the design they used didn't pan out. Now they're asking me to do it.



I've designed and implemented changes to features before. I even implemented a feature that went unimplemented for a few years. But nothing this complicated. My boss seems very confident in my ability to do it, but it took me over a month to understand exactly how it would affect "my" part of the tool, and implement the change there.



Now, despite multiple attempts to ask my boss for help implementing the work in other parts of the tool, he insists that I must learn them and do it myself. I voiced concerns about code ownership, and maybe asking the people who work in that area to do some of it, but the response was that "they are busy and this is your task." It was made clear that I can ask questions, but as far as my main task, I'm on my own.



He's aware of how big this change is. He even says it himself, and tells me not to be hard on myself if it's taking a while. But despite his sympathies, the project just isn't getting done. There's just so much code, I can't even comprehend it all. Sometimes I will spend an entire day trying to map out a completely different part of the tool, trying to understand how my change will affect it, and I'll go home having accomplished almost nothing. Sometimes I'll make a design mistake, realize it, and have to completely start over. I walk in the next day, sit down, look at my notes and sigh. Hopefully I'll write some code.



I'm not sure if I'm being overly dramatic, but I just don't feel like I can do it anymore. On the rare occasion I get assigned a different task, I always knock it out quickly because it just feels like a breath of fresh air. But when I even think about my main task, it's so demoralizing that it makes me to want to find a new job.










share|improve this question









New contributor



Tyg13 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.














  • 7





    Don't ask non-technical managers for technical advice. Ask one of the senior developers in your office for advice.

    – user1666620
    6 hours ago











  • He used to be one of the lead developers for the tool, for over 16 years. He knows the codebase sucks, but I think he's been removed from the problem for too long now (the past 4 years)

    – Tyg13
    6 hours ago











  • in that case, trust his judgement. Dwizums answer is probably the best advice here. Don't measure achievement by the amount of code you've written - I've lost count of the number of times I've spent days working on a single line of code solution.

    – user1666620
    5 hours ago







  • 1





    The question right now lacks specific thing you want help with. What do you want to happen? It sounds more like a rant right now with all due sympathy to your issue

    – aaaaaa
    3 hours ago











  • @aaaaaa Ideally, I'd like to be taken off this project. It's a lot of drudge work to get something that should have been in the tool in the first place. We've built onto a structure for years that now needs to be almost completely reworked. I don't think that's a change that a developer with a single year's experience with a massive codebase should be making. But I fear for the worst if I were to say this to my boss, verbatim

    – Tyg13
    2 hours ago














3












3








3








Apologies for the title. It's definitely not the best



Some context: I'm a newly hired developer (1.5 years) at a software testing company. For a while things were going great. I was able to dive in relatively quickly, but there have been some speed bumps.



In particular, I wrestle a lot with our codebase. It's particularly hairy (being written in C++, Ada and Python) and it's 20 years old at this point. Most frustratingly, there is very little to no established code ownership in a tool that spans over 1.5 million LOC. There is sort of an ad hoc understanding -- the tool can be separated into various modes, and same people tend to work on the same modes, but it's not always the case.



Recently, I've been asked to change, in a fundamental way, a part of the tool that is used in every single mode. It was attempted once by a senior developer a few years ago, but the design they used didn't pan out. Now they're asking me to do it.



I've designed and implemented changes to features before. I even implemented a feature that went unimplemented for a few years. But nothing this complicated. My boss seems very confident in my ability to do it, but it took me over a month to understand exactly how it would affect "my" part of the tool, and implement the change there.



Now, despite multiple attempts to ask my boss for help implementing the work in other parts of the tool, he insists that I must learn them and do it myself. I voiced concerns about code ownership, and maybe asking the people who work in that area to do some of it, but the response was that "they are busy and this is your task." It was made clear that I can ask questions, but as far as my main task, I'm on my own.



He's aware of how big this change is. He even says it himself, and tells me not to be hard on myself if it's taking a while. But despite his sympathies, the project just isn't getting done. There's just so much code, I can't even comprehend it all. Sometimes I will spend an entire day trying to map out a completely different part of the tool, trying to understand how my change will affect it, and I'll go home having accomplished almost nothing. Sometimes I'll make a design mistake, realize it, and have to completely start over. I walk in the next day, sit down, look at my notes and sigh. Hopefully I'll write some code.



I'm not sure if I'm being overly dramatic, but I just don't feel like I can do it anymore. On the rare occasion I get assigned a different task, I always knock it out quickly because it just feels like a breath of fresh air. But when I even think about my main task, it's so demoralizing that it makes me to want to find a new job.










share|improve this question









New contributor



Tyg13 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











Apologies for the title. It's definitely not the best



Some context: I'm a newly hired developer (1.5 years) at a software testing company. For a while things were going great. I was able to dive in relatively quickly, but there have been some speed bumps.



In particular, I wrestle a lot with our codebase. It's particularly hairy (being written in C++, Ada and Python) and it's 20 years old at this point. Most frustratingly, there is very little to no established code ownership in a tool that spans over 1.5 million LOC. There is sort of an ad hoc understanding -- the tool can be separated into various modes, and same people tend to work on the same modes, but it's not always the case.



Recently, I've been asked to change, in a fundamental way, a part of the tool that is used in every single mode. It was attempted once by a senior developer a few years ago, but the design they used didn't pan out. Now they're asking me to do it.



I've designed and implemented changes to features before. I even implemented a feature that went unimplemented for a few years. But nothing this complicated. My boss seems very confident in my ability to do it, but it took me over a month to understand exactly how it would affect "my" part of the tool, and implement the change there.



Now, despite multiple attempts to ask my boss for help implementing the work in other parts of the tool, he insists that I must learn them and do it myself. I voiced concerns about code ownership, and maybe asking the people who work in that area to do some of it, but the response was that "they are busy and this is your task." It was made clear that I can ask questions, but as far as my main task, I'm on my own.



He's aware of how big this change is. He even says it himself, and tells me not to be hard on myself if it's taking a while. But despite his sympathies, the project just isn't getting done. There's just so much code, I can't even comprehend it all. Sometimes I will spend an entire day trying to map out a completely different part of the tool, trying to understand how my change will affect it, and I'll go home having accomplished almost nothing. Sometimes I'll make a design mistake, realize it, and have to completely start over. I walk in the next day, sit down, look at my notes and sigh. Hopefully I'll write some code.



I'm not sure if I'm being overly dramatic, but I just don't feel like I can do it anymore. On the rare occasion I get assigned a different task, I always knock it out quickly because it just feels like a breath of fresh air. But when I even think about my main task, it's so demoralizing that it makes me to want to find a new job.







manager software-development






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Tyg13 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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share|improve this question









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share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 3 hours ago









aaaaaa

2,79631121




2,79631121






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asked 6 hours ago









Tyg13Tyg13

1192




1192




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Check out our Code of Conduct.




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Check out our Code of Conduct.









  • 7





    Don't ask non-technical managers for technical advice. Ask one of the senior developers in your office for advice.

    – user1666620
    6 hours ago











  • He used to be one of the lead developers for the tool, for over 16 years. He knows the codebase sucks, but I think he's been removed from the problem for too long now (the past 4 years)

    – Tyg13
    6 hours ago











  • in that case, trust his judgement. Dwizums answer is probably the best advice here. Don't measure achievement by the amount of code you've written - I've lost count of the number of times I've spent days working on a single line of code solution.

    – user1666620
    5 hours ago







  • 1





    The question right now lacks specific thing you want help with. What do you want to happen? It sounds more like a rant right now with all due sympathy to your issue

    – aaaaaa
    3 hours ago











  • @aaaaaa Ideally, I'd like to be taken off this project. It's a lot of drudge work to get something that should have been in the tool in the first place. We've built onto a structure for years that now needs to be almost completely reworked. I don't think that's a change that a developer with a single year's experience with a massive codebase should be making. But I fear for the worst if I were to say this to my boss, verbatim

    – Tyg13
    2 hours ago













  • 7





    Don't ask non-technical managers for technical advice. Ask one of the senior developers in your office for advice.

    – user1666620
    6 hours ago











  • He used to be one of the lead developers for the tool, for over 16 years. He knows the codebase sucks, but I think he's been removed from the problem for too long now (the past 4 years)

    – Tyg13
    6 hours ago











  • in that case, trust his judgement. Dwizums answer is probably the best advice here. Don't measure achievement by the amount of code you've written - I've lost count of the number of times I've spent days working on a single line of code solution.

    – user1666620
    5 hours ago







  • 1





    The question right now lacks specific thing you want help with. What do you want to happen? It sounds more like a rant right now with all due sympathy to your issue

    – aaaaaa
    3 hours ago











  • @aaaaaa Ideally, I'd like to be taken off this project. It's a lot of drudge work to get something that should have been in the tool in the first place. We've built onto a structure for years that now needs to be almost completely reworked. I don't think that's a change that a developer with a single year's experience with a massive codebase should be making. But I fear for the worst if I were to say this to my boss, verbatim

    – Tyg13
    2 hours ago








7




7





Don't ask non-technical managers for technical advice. Ask one of the senior developers in your office for advice.

– user1666620
6 hours ago





Don't ask non-technical managers for technical advice. Ask one of the senior developers in your office for advice.

– user1666620
6 hours ago













He used to be one of the lead developers for the tool, for over 16 years. He knows the codebase sucks, but I think he's been removed from the problem for too long now (the past 4 years)

– Tyg13
6 hours ago





He used to be one of the lead developers for the tool, for over 16 years. He knows the codebase sucks, but I think he's been removed from the problem for too long now (the past 4 years)

– Tyg13
6 hours ago













in that case, trust his judgement. Dwizums answer is probably the best advice here. Don't measure achievement by the amount of code you've written - I've lost count of the number of times I've spent days working on a single line of code solution.

– user1666620
5 hours ago






in that case, trust his judgement. Dwizums answer is probably the best advice here. Don't measure achievement by the amount of code you've written - I've lost count of the number of times I've spent days working on a single line of code solution.

– user1666620
5 hours ago





1




1





The question right now lacks specific thing you want help with. What do you want to happen? It sounds more like a rant right now with all due sympathy to your issue

– aaaaaa
3 hours ago





The question right now lacks specific thing you want help with. What do you want to happen? It sounds more like a rant right now with all due sympathy to your issue

– aaaaaa
3 hours ago













@aaaaaa Ideally, I'd like to be taken off this project. It's a lot of drudge work to get something that should have been in the tool in the first place. We've built onto a structure for years that now needs to be almost completely reworked. I don't think that's a change that a developer with a single year's experience with a massive codebase should be making. But I fear for the worst if I were to say this to my boss, verbatim

– Tyg13
2 hours ago






@aaaaaa Ideally, I'd like to be taken off this project. It's a lot of drudge work to get something that should have been in the tool in the first place. We've built onto a structure for years that now needs to be almost completely reworked. I don't think that's a change that a developer with a single year's experience with a massive codebase should be making. But I fear for the worst if I were to say this to my boss, verbatim

– Tyg13
2 hours ago











2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















19














You said,




Hopefully I'll write some code.




One of my mentors had a plaque on their desk: Resist the Urge to Code. Yes, software may be your work product, but that doesn't mean your work is only writing code. You need to understand what you're doing, and that takes time. The point of the plaque was to get developers to think carefully about their tasks and make sure they consider the approach they're taking, rather than immediately sitting at a keyboard and writing code based on an incomplete or half-baked notion.



Further, to tie in to your choice of wording in your title, when his developers would complain about spaghetti code, he'd tell them to "pick up a fork and spoon and start twirling." The point being, yes- sometimes we're served a mess and we can't just dive in and eat, we have to organize the mess first.



So - when you have a day like,




Sometimes I will spend an entire day trying to map out a completely different part of the tool, trying to understand how my change will affect it, and I'll go home having accomplished almost nothing.




you shouldn't think of this as accomplishing nothing, since you're learning about the task you have to do. That's an accomplishment. Even if you think "I've tried to map this out and I got it wrong" well then, you've at least ruled something out.



To get at the heart of your concern, yes - it is nice when we have work in easily-identifiable parcels that we can wrap our hands around and accomplish in discrete chunks. But sometimes that's not the case. Since you're feeling so overwhelmed, you may want to seek help (either via your manager, senior developers, the web, whatever) on process mapping or other meta-tools and methods for developers, so you can get better at learning how to tackle large problems, instead of just solving the problem in front of you or simply feeling overwhelmed.



It's also worth pointing out that you made several very encouraging comments about your boss, indicating that he understands the difficulty of the task and he's willing to give you the leeway to accomplish it. it's a compliment that he thinks so highly of you. He's indicated that you're able to ask the other code-owners questions, which is a good starting place when you're really stuck.



Ultimately, you need to decide if this is acceptable work that you are happy to do, versus something that's going to make you quit your job. Just take it to heart: when your boundaries are being pushed, it's either an opportunity to learn and grow, or an opportunity to run from the problem. We all do both, at different points in our lives. The choice is really yours.






share|improve this answer




















  • 3





    This. Don't start coding until you understand what it will do and don't panic if the understanding part takes a lot of time in cases such as these. Every day one learns something more about the system that will later allow changes to be made is an accomplishment. Success cannot be measured in lines of code. Lambdas/LINQ would not have been introduced if that were the case.

    – Jonast92
    4 hours ago






  • 2





    +1 for "pick up a fork and spoon and start twirling."

    – Eric
    1 hour ago


















0














The way you make it sound makes it sound like your code is written in "modules", except that a bunch of modules are spaghetti-strung in amongst other, unrelated modules. What would happen if you factored out that shared part that you are responsible for and figuring out how to make a one-size-fits-all solution to what you're being asked to do, rather than re-implementing each piece individually?



Failing that, it doesn't sound like you're being asked to re-implement a "module", because a "module" is supposed to work the same way in every case. It sounds like you might be being asked to take over a very large swath of the application by yourself, which sounds unreasonable to me. You should carefully figure out which of these cases is correct.



Also, if your boss understands how big of an undertaking this is, but also won't allocate people to help you, it sounds to me like he's trying to throw you under the bus. I've had a similar situation before, and it ended in me being fired from the job for not doing the required work in a reasonable time, despite my boss's repeated "I understand how much work this is and I don't expect it to be done quickly". If this is the same thing that happened to me, your boss is not being friendly and understanding, he's setting you up to fail and smiling at you while stabbing you in the back. Get out.






share|improve this answer























  • Related to your last paragraph. We tend to think of our shop as being split into two halves: one headed by my boss, and another by a co-boss. Both have equal authority, but also their own subordinates. On the subject of the implementation of this feature, my co-boss disagrees heavily with my boss and I, and thinks this could have been done much easier a different way. Recently, another developer began working on a parallel implementation of this feature from an entirely different angle. I didn't even know about this until the developer came to me himself.

    – Tyg13
    4 hours ago











  • @Tyg13 My recommendation in light of that is twofold: Firstly, if your co-boss is an engineer as well, ask him for some suggestions. Explain to him that you're stuck, and you'd like some insight into this huge codebase. See what he says. If he takes the "I know the answer but I'm not telling you haha!" tactic, then run away AS FAST AS YOU CAN. This would be not only unprofessional (as in your co-boss would not be working in the best interest of the company), but would also make it clear that you are being set up.

    – Ertai87
    4 hours ago











  • As for the second piece of advice, the fact that you are being given duplicate work and the other person was told not to collaborate with you explicitly (this is my take based on information provided) means that you're probably being put in competition with him. Determine which of you is in the better position from a work-politics standpoint, and that person is probably soon to be on the chopping block. Since he was the one notified about the work being duplicated and not you, the one to be chopped is probably you. Get out.

    – Ertai87
    4 hours ago











  • Unfortunately, given from what I've seen of the structure of this company, it's more likely that no one told this developer I was working on the project. We don't have meetings other than the weekly one-on-one with the manager. No one knows what anyone else is doing unless we ask one another, or our manager tells us.

    – Tyg13
    1 hour ago












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2 Answers
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active

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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









19














You said,




Hopefully I'll write some code.




One of my mentors had a plaque on their desk: Resist the Urge to Code. Yes, software may be your work product, but that doesn't mean your work is only writing code. You need to understand what you're doing, and that takes time. The point of the plaque was to get developers to think carefully about their tasks and make sure they consider the approach they're taking, rather than immediately sitting at a keyboard and writing code based on an incomplete or half-baked notion.



Further, to tie in to your choice of wording in your title, when his developers would complain about spaghetti code, he'd tell them to "pick up a fork and spoon and start twirling." The point being, yes- sometimes we're served a mess and we can't just dive in and eat, we have to organize the mess first.



So - when you have a day like,




Sometimes I will spend an entire day trying to map out a completely different part of the tool, trying to understand how my change will affect it, and I'll go home having accomplished almost nothing.




you shouldn't think of this as accomplishing nothing, since you're learning about the task you have to do. That's an accomplishment. Even if you think "I've tried to map this out and I got it wrong" well then, you've at least ruled something out.



To get at the heart of your concern, yes - it is nice when we have work in easily-identifiable parcels that we can wrap our hands around and accomplish in discrete chunks. But sometimes that's not the case. Since you're feeling so overwhelmed, you may want to seek help (either via your manager, senior developers, the web, whatever) on process mapping or other meta-tools and methods for developers, so you can get better at learning how to tackle large problems, instead of just solving the problem in front of you or simply feeling overwhelmed.



It's also worth pointing out that you made several very encouraging comments about your boss, indicating that he understands the difficulty of the task and he's willing to give you the leeway to accomplish it. it's a compliment that he thinks so highly of you. He's indicated that you're able to ask the other code-owners questions, which is a good starting place when you're really stuck.



Ultimately, you need to decide if this is acceptable work that you are happy to do, versus something that's going to make you quit your job. Just take it to heart: when your boundaries are being pushed, it's either an opportunity to learn and grow, or an opportunity to run from the problem. We all do both, at different points in our lives. The choice is really yours.






share|improve this answer




















  • 3





    This. Don't start coding until you understand what it will do and don't panic if the understanding part takes a lot of time in cases such as these. Every day one learns something more about the system that will later allow changes to be made is an accomplishment. Success cannot be measured in lines of code. Lambdas/LINQ would not have been introduced if that were the case.

    – Jonast92
    4 hours ago






  • 2





    +1 for "pick up a fork and spoon and start twirling."

    – Eric
    1 hour ago















19














You said,




Hopefully I'll write some code.




One of my mentors had a plaque on their desk: Resist the Urge to Code. Yes, software may be your work product, but that doesn't mean your work is only writing code. You need to understand what you're doing, and that takes time. The point of the plaque was to get developers to think carefully about their tasks and make sure they consider the approach they're taking, rather than immediately sitting at a keyboard and writing code based on an incomplete or half-baked notion.



Further, to tie in to your choice of wording in your title, when his developers would complain about spaghetti code, he'd tell them to "pick up a fork and spoon and start twirling." The point being, yes- sometimes we're served a mess and we can't just dive in and eat, we have to organize the mess first.



So - when you have a day like,




Sometimes I will spend an entire day trying to map out a completely different part of the tool, trying to understand how my change will affect it, and I'll go home having accomplished almost nothing.




you shouldn't think of this as accomplishing nothing, since you're learning about the task you have to do. That's an accomplishment. Even if you think "I've tried to map this out and I got it wrong" well then, you've at least ruled something out.



To get at the heart of your concern, yes - it is nice when we have work in easily-identifiable parcels that we can wrap our hands around and accomplish in discrete chunks. But sometimes that's not the case. Since you're feeling so overwhelmed, you may want to seek help (either via your manager, senior developers, the web, whatever) on process mapping or other meta-tools and methods for developers, so you can get better at learning how to tackle large problems, instead of just solving the problem in front of you or simply feeling overwhelmed.



It's also worth pointing out that you made several very encouraging comments about your boss, indicating that he understands the difficulty of the task and he's willing to give you the leeway to accomplish it. it's a compliment that he thinks so highly of you. He's indicated that you're able to ask the other code-owners questions, which is a good starting place when you're really stuck.



Ultimately, you need to decide if this is acceptable work that you are happy to do, versus something that's going to make you quit your job. Just take it to heart: when your boundaries are being pushed, it's either an opportunity to learn and grow, or an opportunity to run from the problem. We all do both, at different points in our lives. The choice is really yours.






share|improve this answer




















  • 3





    This. Don't start coding until you understand what it will do and don't panic if the understanding part takes a lot of time in cases such as these. Every day one learns something more about the system that will later allow changes to be made is an accomplishment. Success cannot be measured in lines of code. Lambdas/LINQ would not have been introduced if that were the case.

    – Jonast92
    4 hours ago






  • 2





    +1 for "pick up a fork and spoon and start twirling."

    – Eric
    1 hour ago













19












19








19







You said,




Hopefully I'll write some code.




One of my mentors had a plaque on their desk: Resist the Urge to Code. Yes, software may be your work product, but that doesn't mean your work is only writing code. You need to understand what you're doing, and that takes time. The point of the plaque was to get developers to think carefully about their tasks and make sure they consider the approach they're taking, rather than immediately sitting at a keyboard and writing code based on an incomplete or half-baked notion.



Further, to tie in to your choice of wording in your title, when his developers would complain about spaghetti code, he'd tell them to "pick up a fork and spoon and start twirling." The point being, yes- sometimes we're served a mess and we can't just dive in and eat, we have to organize the mess first.



So - when you have a day like,




Sometimes I will spend an entire day trying to map out a completely different part of the tool, trying to understand how my change will affect it, and I'll go home having accomplished almost nothing.




you shouldn't think of this as accomplishing nothing, since you're learning about the task you have to do. That's an accomplishment. Even if you think "I've tried to map this out and I got it wrong" well then, you've at least ruled something out.



To get at the heart of your concern, yes - it is nice when we have work in easily-identifiable parcels that we can wrap our hands around and accomplish in discrete chunks. But sometimes that's not the case. Since you're feeling so overwhelmed, you may want to seek help (either via your manager, senior developers, the web, whatever) on process mapping or other meta-tools and methods for developers, so you can get better at learning how to tackle large problems, instead of just solving the problem in front of you or simply feeling overwhelmed.



It's also worth pointing out that you made several very encouraging comments about your boss, indicating that he understands the difficulty of the task and he's willing to give you the leeway to accomplish it. it's a compliment that he thinks so highly of you. He's indicated that you're able to ask the other code-owners questions, which is a good starting place when you're really stuck.



Ultimately, you need to decide if this is acceptable work that you are happy to do, versus something that's going to make you quit your job. Just take it to heart: when your boundaries are being pushed, it's either an opportunity to learn and grow, or an opportunity to run from the problem. We all do both, at different points in our lives. The choice is really yours.






share|improve this answer















You said,




Hopefully I'll write some code.




One of my mentors had a plaque on their desk: Resist the Urge to Code. Yes, software may be your work product, but that doesn't mean your work is only writing code. You need to understand what you're doing, and that takes time. The point of the plaque was to get developers to think carefully about their tasks and make sure they consider the approach they're taking, rather than immediately sitting at a keyboard and writing code based on an incomplete or half-baked notion.



Further, to tie in to your choice of wording in your title, when his developers would complain about spaghetti code, he'd tell them to "pick up a fork and spoon and start twirling." The point being, yes- sometimes we're served a mess and we can't just dive in and eat, we have to organize the mess first.



So - when you have a day like,




Sometimes I will spend an entire day trying to map out a completely different part of the tool, trying to understand how my change will affect it, and I'll go home having accomplished almost nothing.




you shouldn't think of this as accomplishing nothing, since you're learning about the task you have to do. That's an accomplishment. Even if you think "I've tried to map this out and I got it wrong" well then, you've at least ruled something out.



To get at the heart of your concern, yes - it is nice when we have work in easily-identifiable parcels that we can wrap our hands around and accomplish in discrete chunks. But sometimes that's not the case. Since you're feeling so overwhelmed, you may want to seek help (either via your manager, senior developers, the web, whatever) on process mapping or other meta-tools and methods for developers, so you can get better at learning how to tackle large problems, instead of just solving the problem in front of you or simply feeling overwhelmed.



It's also worth pointing out that you made several very encouraging comments about your boss, indicating that he understands the difficulty of the task and he's willing to give you the leeway to accomplish it. it's a compliment that he thinks so highly of you. He's indicated that you're able to ask the other code-owners questions, which is a good starting place when you're really stuck.



Ultimately, you need to decide if this is acceptable work that you are happy to do, versus something that's going to make you quit your job. Just take it to heart: when your boundaries are being pushed, it's either an opportunity to learn and grow, or an opportunity to run from the problem. We all do both, at different points in our lives. The choice is really yours.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 4 hours ago

























answered 6 hours ago









dwizumdwizum

22.3k104174




22.3k104174







  • 3





    This. Don't start coding until you understand what it will do and don't panic if the understanding part takes a lot of time in cases such as these. Every day one learns something more about the system that will later allow changes to be made is an accomplishment. Success cannot be measured in lines of code. Lambdas/LINQ would not have been introduced if that were the case.

    – Jonast92
    4 hours ago






  • 2





    +1 for "pick up a fork and spoon and start twirling."

    – Eric
    1 hour ago












  • 3





    This. Don't start coding until you understand what it will do and don't panic if the understanding part takes a lot of time in cases such as these. Every day one learns something more about the system that will later allow changes to be made is an accomplishment. Success cannot be measured in lines of code. Lambdas/LINQ would not have been introduced if that were the case.

    – Jonast92
    4 hours ago






  • 2





    +1 for "pick up a fork and spoon and start twirling."

    – Eric
    1 hour ago







3




3





This. Don't start coding until you understand what it will do and don't panic if the understanding part takes a lot of time in cases such as these. Every day one learns something more about the system that will later allow changes to be made is an accomplishment. Success cannot be measured in lines of code. Lambdas/LINQ would not have been introduced if that were the case.

– Jonast92
4 hours ago





This. Don't start coding until you understand what it will do and don't panic if the understanding part takes a lot of time in cases such as these. Every day one learns something more about the system that will later allow changes to be made is an accomplishment. Success cannot be measured in lines of code. Lambdas/LINQ would not have been introduced if that were the case.

– Jonast92
4 hours ago




2




2





+1 for "pick up a fork and spoon and start twirling."

– Eric
1 hour ago





+1 for "pick up a fork and spoon and start twirling."

– Eric
1 hour ago













0














The way you make it sound makes it sound like your code is written in "modules", except that a bunch of modules are spaghetti-strung in amongst other, unrelated modules. What would happen if you factored out that shared part that you are responsible for and figuring out how to make a one-size-fits-all solution to what you're being asked to do, rather than re-implementing each piece individually?



Failing that, it doesn't sound like you're being asked to re-implement a "module", because a "module" is supposed to work the same way in every case. It sounds like you might be being asked to take over a very large swath of the application by yourself, which sounds unreasonable to me. You should carefully figure out which of these cases is correct.



Also, if your boss understands how big of an undertaking this is, but also won't allocate people to help you, it sounds to me like he's trying to throw you under the bus. I've had a similar situation before, and it ended in me being fired from the job for not doing the required work in a reasonable time, despite my boss's repeated "I understand how much work this is and I don't expect it to be done quickly". If this is the same thing that happened to me, your boss is not being friendly and understanding, he's setting you up to fail and smiling at you while stabbing you in the back. Get out.






share|improve this answer























  • Related to your last paragraph. We tend to think of our shop as being split into two halves: one headed by my boss, and another by a co-boss. Both have equal authority, but also their own subordinates. On the subject of the implementation of this feature, my co-boss disagrees heavily with my boss and I, and thinks this could have been done much easier a different way. Recently, another developer began working on a parallel implementation of this feature from an entirely different angle. I didn't even know about this until the developer came to me himself.

    – Tyg13
    4 hours ago











  • @Tyg13 My recommendation in light of that is twofold: Firstly, if your co-boss is an engineer as well, ask him for some suggestions. Explain to him that you're stuck, and you'd like some insight into this huge codebase. See what he says. If he takes the "I know the answer but I'm not telling you haha!" tactic, then run away AS FAST AS YOU CAN. This would be not only unprofessional (as in your co-boss would not be working in the best interest of the company), but would also make it clear that you are being set up.

    – Ertai87
    4 hours ago











  • As for the second piece of advice, the fact that you are being given duplicate work and the other person was told not to collaborate with you explicitly (this is my take based on information provided) means that you're probably being put in competition with him. Determine which of you is in the better position from a work-politics standpoint, and that person is probably soon to be on the chopping block. Since he was the one notified about the work being duplicated and not you, the one to be chopped is probably you. Get out.

    – Ertai87
    4 hours ago











  • Unfortunately, given from what I've seen of the structure of this company, it's more likely that no one told this developer I was working on the project. We don't have meetings other than the weekly one-on-one with the manager. No one knows what anyone else is doing unless we ask one another, or our manager tells us.

    – Tyg13
    1 hour ago
















0














The way you make it sound makes it sound like your code is written in "modules", except that a bunch of modules are spaghetti-strung in amongst other, unrelated modules. What would happen if you factored out that shared part that you are responsible for and figuring out how to make a one-size-fits-all solution to what you're being asked to do, rather than re-implementing each piece individually?



Failing that, it doesn't sound like you're being asked to re-implement a "module", because a "module" is supposed to work the same way in every case. It sounds like you might be being asked to take over a very large swath of the application by yourself, which sounds unreasonable to me. You should carefully figure out which of these cases is correct.



Also, if your boss understands how big of an undertaking this is, but also won't allocate people to help you, it sounds to me like he's trying to throw you under the bus. I've had a similar situation before, and it ended in me being fired from the job for not doing the required work in a reasonable time, despite my boss's repeated "I understand how much work this is and I don't expect it to be done quickly". If this is the same thing that happened to me, your boss is not being friendly and understanding, he's setting you up to fail and smiling at you while stabbing you in the back. Get out.






share|improve this answer























  • Related to your last paragraph. We tend to think of our shop as being split into two halves: one headed by my boss, and another by a co-boss. Both have equal authority, but also their own subordinates. On the subject of the implementation of this feature, my co-boss disagrees heavily with my boss and I, and thinks this could have been done much easier a different way. Recently, another developer began working on a parallel implementation of this feature from an entirely different angle. I didn't even know about this until the developer came to me himself.

    – Tyg13
    4 hours ago











  • @Tyg13 My recommendation in light of that is twofold: Firstly, if your co-boss is an engineer as well, ask him for some suggestions. Explain to him that you're stuck, and you'd like some insight into this huge codebase. See what he says. If he takes the "I know the answer but I'm not telling you haha!" tactic, then run away AS FAST AS YOU CAN. This would be not only unprofessional (as in your co-boss would not be working in the best interest of the company), but would also make it clear that you are being set up.

    – Ertai87
    4 hours ago











  • As for the second piece of advice, the fact that you are being given duplicate work and the other person was told not to collaborate with you explicitly (this is my take based on information provided) means that you're probably being put in competition with him. Determine which of you is in the better position from a work-politics standpoint, and that person is probably soon to be on the chopping block. Since he was the one notified about the work being duplicated and not you, the one to be chopped is probably you. Get out.

    – Ertai87
    4 hours ago











  • Unfortunately, given from what I've seen of the structure of this company, it's more likely that no one told this developer I was working on the project. We don't have meetings other than the weekly one-on-one with the manager. No one knows what anyone else is doing unless we ask one another, or our manager tells us.

    – Tyg13
    1 hour ago














0












0








0







The way you make it sound makes it sound like your code is written in "modules", except that a bunch of modules are spaghetti-strung in amongst other, unrelated modules. What would happen if you factored out that shared part that you are responsible for and figuring out how to make a one-size-fits-all solution to what you're being asked to do, rather than re-implementing each piece individually?



Failing that, it doesn't sound like you're being asked to re-implement a "module", because a "module" is supposed to work the same way in every case. It sounds like you might be being asked to take over a very large swath of the application by yourself, which sounds unreasonable to me. You should carefully figure out which of these cases is correct.



Also, if your boss understands how big of an undertaking this is, but also won't allocate people to help you, it sounds to me like he's trying to throw you under the bus. I've had a similar situation before, and it ended in me being fired from the job for not doing the required work in a reasonable time, despite my boss's repeated "I understand how much work this is and I don't expect it to be done quickly". If this is the same thing that happened to me, your boss is not being friendly and understanding, he's setting you up to fail and smiling at you while stabbing you in the back. Get out.






share|improve this answer













The way you make it sound makes it sound like your code is written in "modules", except that a bunch of modules are spaghetti-strung in amongst other, unrelated modules. What would happen if you factored out that shared part that you are responsible for and figuring out how to make a one-size-fits-all solution to what you're being asked to do, rather than re-implementing each piece individually?



Failing that, it doesn't sound like you're being asked to re-implement a "module", because a "module" is supposed to work the same way in every case. It sounds like you might be being asked to take over a very large swath of the application by yourself, which sounds unreasonable to me. You should carefully figure out which of these cases is correct.



Also, if your boss understands how big of an undertaking this is, but also won't allocate people to help you, it sounds to me like he's trying to throw you under the bus. I've had a similar situation before, and it ended in me being fired from the job for not doing the required work in a reasonable time, despite my boss's repeated "I understand how much work this is and I don't expect it to be done quickly". If this is the same thing that happened to me, your boss is not being friendly and understanding, he's setting you up to fail and smiling at you while stabbing you in the back. Get out.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 4 hours ago









Ertai87Ertai87

13.5k41740




13.5k41740












  • Related to your last paragraph. We tend to think of our shop as being split into two halves: one headed by my boss, and another by a co-boss. Both have equal authority, but also their own subordinates. On the subject of the implementation of this feature, my co-boss disagrees heavily with my boss and I, and thinks this could have been done much easier a different way. Recently, another developer began working on a parallel implementation of this feature from an entirely different angle. I didn't even know about this until the developer came to me himself.

    – Tyg13
    4 hours ago











  • @Tyg13 My recommendation in light of that is twofold: Firstly, if your co-boss is an engineer as well, ask him for some suggestions. Explain to him that you're stuck, and you'd like some insight into this huge codebase. See what he says. If he takes the "I know the answer but I'm not telling you haha!" tactic, then run away AS FAST AS YOU CAN. This would be not only unprofessional (as in your co-boss would not be working in the best interest of the company), but would also make it clear that you are being set up.

    – Ertai87
    4 hours ago











  • As for the second piece of advice, the fact that you are being given duplicate work and the other person was told not to collaborate with you explicitly (this is my take based on information provided) means that you're probably being put in competition with him. Determine which of you is in the better position from a work-politics standpoint, and that person is probably soon to be on the chopping block. Since he was the one notified about the work being duplicated and not you, the one to be chopped is probably you. Get out.

    – Ertai87
    4 hours ago











  • Unfortunately, given from what I've seen of the structure of this company, it's more likely that no one told this developer I was working on the project. We don't have meetings other than the weekly one-on-one with the manager. No one knows what anyone else is doing unless we ask one another, or our manager tells us.

    – Tyg13
    1 hour ago


















  • Related to your last paragraph. We tend to think of our shop as being split into two halves: one headed by my boss, and another by a co-boss. Both have equal authority, but also their own subordinates. On the subject of the implementation of this feature, my co-boss disagrees heavily with my boss and I, and thinks this could have been done much easier a different way. Recently, another developer began working on a parallel implementation of this feature from an entirely different angle. I didn't even know about this until the developer came to me himself.

    – Tyg13
    4 hours ago











  • @Tyg13 My recommendation in light of that is twofold: Firstly, if your co-boss is an engineer as well, ask him for some suggestions. Explain to him that you're stuck, and you'd like some insight into this huge codebase. See what he says. If he takes the "I know the answer but I'm not telling you haha!" tactic, then run away AS FAST AS YOU CAN. This would be not only unprofessional (as in your co-boss would not be working in the best interest of the company), but would also make it clear that you are being set up.

    – Ertai87
    4 hours ago











  • As for the second piece of advice, the fact that you are being given duplicate work and the other person was told not to collaborate with you explicitly (this is my take based on information provided) means that you're probably being put in competition with him. Determine which of you is in the better position from a work-politics standpoint, and that person is probably soon to be on the chopping block. Since he was the one notified about the work being duplicated and not you, the one to be chopped is probably you. Get out.

    – Ertai87
    4 hours ago











  • Unfortunately, given from what I've seen of the structure of this company, it's more likely that no one told this developer I was working on the project. We don't have meetings other than the weekly one-on-one with the manager. No one knows what anyone else is doing unless we ask one another, or our manager tells us.

    – Tyg13
    1 hour ago

















Related to your last paragraph. We tend to think of our shop as being split into two halves: one headed by my boss, and another by a co-boss. Both have equal authority, but also their own subordinates. On the subject of the implementation of this feature, my co-boss disagrees heavily with my boss and I, and thinks this could have been done much easier a different way. Recently, another developer began working on a parallel implementation of this feature from an entirely different angle. I didn't even know about this until the developer came to me himself.

– Tyg13
4 hours ago





Related to your last paragraph. We tend to think of our shop as being split into two halves: one headed by my boss, and another by a co-boss. Both have equal authority, but also their own subordinates. On the subject of the implementation of this feature, my co-boss disagrees heavily with my boss and I, and thinks this could have been done much easier a different way. Recently, another developer began working on a parallel implementation of this feature from an entirely different angle. I didn't even know about this until the developer came to me himself.

– Tyg13
4 hours ago













@Tyg13 My recommendation in light of that is twofold: Firstly, if your co-boss is an engineer as well, ask him for some suggestions. Explain to him that you're stuck, and you'd like some insight into this huge codebase. See what he says. If he takes the "I know the answer but I'm not telling you haha!" tactic, then run away AS FAST AS YOU CAN. This would be not only unprofessional (as in your co-boss would not be working in the best interest of the company), but would also make it clear that you are being set up.

– Ertai87
4 hours ago





@Tyg13 My recommendation in light of that is twofold: Firstly, if your co-boss is an engineer as well, ask him for some suggestions. Explain to him that you're stuck, and you'd like some insight into this huge codebase. See what he says. If he takes the "I know the answer but I'm not telling you haha!" tactic, then run away AS FAST AS YOU CAN. This would be not only unprofessional (as in your co-boss would not be working in the best interest of the company), but would also make it clear that you are being set up.

– Ertai87
4 hours ago













As for the second piece of advice, the fact that you are being given duplicate work and the other person was told not to collaborate with you explicitly (this is my take based on information provided) means that you're probably being put in competition with him. Determine which of you is in the better position from a work-politics standpoint, and that person is probably soon to be on the chopping block. Since he was the one notified about the work being duplicated and not you, the one to be chopped is probably you. Get out.

– Ertai87
4 hours ago





As for the second piece of advice, the fact that you are being given duplicate work and the other person was told not to collaborate with you explicitly (this is my take based on information provided) means that you're probably being put in competition with him. Determine which of you is in the better position from a work-politics standpoint, and that person is probably soon to be on the chopping block. Since he was the one notified about the work being duplicated and not you, the one to be chopped is probably you. Get out.

– Ertai87
4 hours ago













Unfortunately, given from what I've seen of the structure of this company, it's more likely that no one told this developer I was working on the project. We don't have meetings other than the weekly one-on-one with the manager. No one knows what anyone else is doing unless we ask one another, or our manager tells us.

– Tyg13
1 hour ago






Unfortunately, given from what I've seen of the structure of this company, it's more likely that no one told this developer I was working on the project. We don't have meetings other than the weekly one-on-one with the manager. No one knows what anyone else is doing unless we ask one another, or our manager tells us.

– Tyg13
1 hour ago











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