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Is there any relationship between frequency of signal and distance it travels?


Is there any difference between “induction” and “resonant” wireless energy transfer?Any wireless technology to find the distance between transmitter and receiverIs there any chip which supports 802.11 along with 802.15.4Relationship between voltage/current & LED strips?Wireless Power transmission. Is it possible to achieve 100-200w (load side) power using off-the shelf components?What is the relationship between EM radiation and Current Usage?Relationship between Electrostatic Force and Circuit Layout / DimensionsWhat are (if there are any) the major applications/implications of relativistic electrodynamics in engineering?How to determine best wireless technology for my applicationAre IOT wireless network protocol right for high throughput point to point communication?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








2












$begingroup$


I'm currently researching 5G technology. Many videos/articles on this topic claim that 5G is designed for communicating on lower distances (than 4G), because of higher (than 4G) frequency. So to build a network we need more dense grid of access points. Is this some general rule, that the higher frequency means less range, or is it connected to this exact frequency range, specific to 5G?










share|improve this question







New contributor



Piotrek is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Atmospheric absorption peaks at 60---70Ghz.
    $endgroup$
    – analogsystemsrf
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Diffraction increases with frequency. FM has shorter range than AM because it uses higher carrier freq. Long waves can go by obstacles better. But increasing carrier wave increases BW for the information signal.
    $endgroup$
    – user1999
    8 hours ago


















2












$begingroup$


I'm currently researching 5G technology. Many videos/articles on this topic claim that 5G is designed for communicating on lower distances (than 4G), because of higher (than 4G) frequency. So to build a network we need more dense grid of access points. Is this some general rule, that the higher frequency means less range, or is it connected to this exact frequency range, specific to 5G?










share|improve this question







New contributor



Piotrek is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Atmospheric absorption peaks at 60---70Ghz.
    $endgroup$
    – analogsystemsrf
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Diffraction increases with frequency. FM has shorter range than AM because it uses higher carrier freq. Long waves can go by obstacles better. But increasing carrier wave increases BW for the information signal.
    $endgroup$
    – user1999
    8 hours ago














2












2








2





$begingroup$


I'm currently researching 5G technology. Many videos/articles on this topic claim that 5G is designed for communicating on lower distances (than 4G), because of higher (than 4G) frequency. So to build a network we need more dense grid of access points. Is this some general rule, that the higher frequency means less range, or is it connected to this exact frequency range, specific to 5G?










share|improve this question







New contributor



Piotrek is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$




I'm currently researching 5G technology. Many videos/articles on this topic claim that 5G is designed for communicating on lower distances (than 4G), because of higher (than 4G) frequency. So to build a network we need more dense grid of access points. Is this some general rule, that the higher frequency means less range, or is it connected to this exact frequency range, specific to 5G?







wireless theory physics signal-theory






share|improve this question







New contributor



Piotrek is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










share|improve this question







New contributor



Piotrek is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








share|improve this question




share|improve this question






New contributor



Piotrek is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








asked 9 hours ago









PiotrekPiotrek

1133




1133




New contributor



Piotrek is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




New contributor




Piotrek is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.













  • $begingroup$
    Atmospheric absorption peaks at 60---70Ghz.
    $endgroup$
    – analogsystemsrf
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Diffraction increases with frequency. FM has shorter range than AM because it uses higher carrier freq. Long waves can go by obstacles better. But increasing carrier wave increases BW for the information signal.
    $endgroup$
    – user1999
    8 hours ago

















  • $begingroup$
    Atmospheric absorption peaks at 60---70Ghz.
    $endgroup$
    – analogsystemsrf
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Diffraction increases with frequency. FM has shorter range than AM because it uses higher carrier freq. Long waves can go by obstacles better. But increasing carrier wave increases BW for the information signal.
    $endgroup$
    – user1999
    8 hours ago
















$begingroup$
Atmospheric absorption peaks at 60---70Ghz.
$endgroup$
– analogsystemsrf
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
Atmospheric absorption peaks at 60---70Ghz.
$endgroup$
– analogsystemsrf
8 hours ago












$begingroup$
Diffraction increases with frequency. FM has shorter range than AM because it uses higher carrier freq. Long waves can go by obstacles better. But increasing carrier wave increases BW for the information signal.
$endgroup$
– user1999
8 hours ago





$begingroup$
Diffraction increases with frequency. FM has shorter range than AM because it uses higher carrier freq. Long waves can go by obstacles better. But increasing carrier wave increases BW for the information signal.
$endgroup$
– user1999
8 hours ago











1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















8












$begingroup$

In general, yes, higher frequencies attenuate more the further distance they travel. There are two effects that are responsible for this.



First, higher frequency radio waves tend to be absorbed more readily by objects (ie: the penetration depth in the material is shorter). You may have noticed this effect with your home WiFi network. If you have a dual-band router, you probably have two networks, one at 2.4 GHz and one at 5 GHz. You may have noticed that the 2.4 GHz network reaches some corners of your house that the 5 GHz network does not - this is because the 2.4 GHz network penetrates walls better than the 5 GHz network does.



In terms of fifth-generation cell networks, this is the principal effect that limits range: people prefer to live in houses and apartment buildings, and those houses absorb more RF energy at higher frequencies.



The second effect is less intuitive, and falls out the Friis equation for free-space path loss.



$$ FSPL= 20log_10(d) + 20log_10(f) + 20log_10left(frac4picright)$$



Where $FSPL$ is the free space path loss in dB, $d$ is the distance in meters, and $f$ is the frequency in hertz, and $c$ is the speed of light. Note that as $f$ increases, the loss increases: a doubling in frequency results in a 6 dB increase in path loss.



This equation would lead you to believe that free space in some way attenuates higher frequencies more than lower frequencies, but that's not really the truth, even though it's a convenient lie we engineers tell ourselves. The "free space path loss" is actually a geometric effect that captures the "spread" of the electromagnetic wave as it propagates in free space, the same as how the beam of a flashlight spreads out when it's shone out into a big dark room.



The reason it's frequency dependent is because it does not account for the gain of the transmitting and receiving antenna - they are assumed to be isotropic. An isotropic antenna at a higher frequency is physically smaller than one at a lower frequency, which means that geometrically they have a smaller effective aperture.



If you keep the effective aperture of both antennas at both ends of the link the same physical size as you go up in frequency, you actually see that your path loss is independent of frequency. However, you would also find that the antennas are now directional: as you increase the aperture size, the transmitting antenna shoots a tighter and tighter beam, and the receiving antenna can only receive signals from a narrower and narrower cone. Since engineers usually think in terms of preserving a given antenna pattern and not in aperture size (since pointing antennas can be problematic), we commonly consider free space to have "loss" that increases with frequency when in reality that isn't quite the case.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Doesn't look like inline math formatting with single enclosing dollar signs is working - anyone have any ideas about what I did wrong?
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    8 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    You need to use $ instead of $ here. This is done differently on different sites due to the tradeoff of misformatting currency or code.
    $endgroup$
    – Kevin Reid
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thanks, that worked.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thank you very much! It's really detailed answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Piotrek
    7 hours ago











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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









8












$begingroup$

In general, yes, higher frequencies attenuate more the further distance they travel. There are two effects that are responsible for this.



First, higher frequency radio waves tend to be absorbed more readily by objects (ie: the penetration depth in the material is shorter). You may have noticed this effect with your home WiFi network. If you have a dual-band router, you probably have two networks, one at 2.4 GHz and one at 5 GHz. You may have noticed that the 2.4 GHz network reaches some corners of your house that the 5 GHz network does not - this is because the 2.4 GHz network penetrates walls better than the 5 GHz network does.



In terms of fifth-generation cell networks, this is the principal effect that limits range: people prefer to live in houses and apartment buildings, and those houses absorb more RF energy at higher frequencies.



The second effect is less intuitive, and falls out the Friis equation for free-space path loss.



$$ FSPL= 20log_10(d) + 20log_10(f) + 20log_10left(frac4picright)$$



Where $FSPL$ is the free space path loss in dB, $d$ is the distance in meters, and $f$ is the frequency in hertz, and $c$ is the speed of light. Note that as $f$ increases, the loss increases: a doubling in frequency results in a 6 dB increase in path loss.



This equation would lead you to believe that free space in some way attenuates higher frequencies more than lower frequencies, but that's not really the truth, even though it's a convenient lie we engineers tell ourselves. The "free space path loss" is actually a geometric effect that captures the "spread" of the electromagnetic wave as it propagates in free space, the same as how the beam of a flashlight spreads out when it's shone out into a big dark room.



The reason it's frequency dependent is because it does not account for the gain of the transmitting and receiving antenna - they are assumed to be isotropic. An isotropic antenna at a higher frequency is physically smaller than one at a lower frequency, which means that geometrically they have a smaller effective aperture.



If you keep the effective aperture of both antennas at both ends of the link the same physical size as you go up in frequency, you actually see that your path loss is independent of frequency. However, you would also find that the antennas are now directional: as you increase the aperture size, the transmitting antenna shoots a tighter and tighter beam, and the receiving antenna can only receive signals from a narrower and narrower cone. Since engineers usually think in terms of preserving a given antenna pattern and not in aperture size (since pointing antennas can be problematic), we commonly consider free space to have "loss" that increases with frequency when in reality that isn't quite the case.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Doesn't look like inline math formatting with single enclosing dollar signs is working - anyone have any ideas about what I did wrong?
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    8 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    You need to use $ instead of $ here. This is done differently on different sites due to the tradeoff of misformatting currency or code.
    $endgroup$
    – Kevin Reid
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thanks, that worked.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thank you very much! It's really detailed answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Piotrek
    7 hours ago















8












$begingroup$

In general, yes, higher frequencies attenuate more the further distance they travel. There are two effects that are responsible for this.



First, higher frequency radio waves tend to be absorbed more readily by objects (ie: the penetration depth in the material is shorter). You may have noticed this effect with your home WiFi network. If you have a dual-band router, you probably have two networks, one at 2.4 GHz and one at 5 GHz. You may have noticed that the 2.4 GHz network reaches some corners of your house that the 5 GHz network does not - this is because the 2.4 GHz network penetrates walls better than the 5 GHz network does.



In terms of fifth-generation cell networks, this is the principal effect that limits range: people prefer to live in houses and apartment buildings, and those houses absorb more RF energy at higher frequencies.



The second effect is less intuitive, and falls out the Friis equation for free-space path loss.



$$ FSPL= 20log_10(d) + 20log_10(f) + 20log_10left(frac4picright)$$



Where $FSPL$ is the free space path loss in dB, $d$ is the distance in meters, and $f$ is the frequency in hertz, and $c$ is the speed of light. Note that as $f$ increases, the loss increases: a doubling in frequency results in a 6 dB increase in path loss.



This equation would lead you to believe that free space in some way attenuates higher frequencies more than lower frequencies, but that's not really the truth, even though it's a convenient lie we engineers tell ourselves. The "free space path loss" is actually a geometric effect that captures the "spread" of the electromagnetic wave as it propagates in free space, the same as how the beam of a flashlight spreads out when it's shone out into a big dark room.



The reason it's frequency dependent is because it does not account for the gain of the transmitting and receiving antenna - they are assumed to be isotropic. An isotropic antenna at a higher frequency is physically smaller than one at a lower frequency, which means that geometrically they have a smaller effective aperture.



If you keep the effective aperture of both antennas at both ends of the link the same physical size as you go up in frequency, you actually see that your path loss is independent of frequency. However, you would also find that the antennas are now directional: as you increase the aperture size, the transmitting antenna shoots a tighter and tighter beam, and the receiving antenna can only receive signals from a narrower and narrower cone. Since engineers usually think in terms of preserving a given antenna pattern and not in aperture size (since pointing antennas can be problematic), we commonly consider free space to have "loss" that increases with frequency when in reality that isn't quite the case.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Doesn't look like inline math formatting with single enclosing dollar signs is working - anyone have any ideas about what I did wrong?
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    8 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    You need to use $ instead of $ here. This is done differently on different sites due to the tradeoff of misformatting currency or code.
    $endgroup$
    – Kevin Reid
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thanks, that worked.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thank you very much! It's really detailed answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Piotrek
    7 hours ago













8












8








8





$begingroup$

In general, yes, higher frequencies attenuate more the further distance they travel. There are two effects that are responsible for this.



First, higher frequency radio waves tend to be absorbed more readily by objects (ie: the penetration depth in the material is shorter). You may have noticed this effect with your home WiFi network. If you have a dual-band router, you probably have two networks, one at 2.4 GHz and one at 5 GHz. You may have noticed that the 2.4 GHz network reaches some corners of your house that the 5 GHz network does not - this is because the 2.4 GHz network penetrates walls better than the 5 GHz network does.



In terms of fifth-generation cell networks, this is the principal effect that limits range: people prefer to live in houses and apartment buildings, and those houses absorb more RF energy at higher frequencies.



The second effect is less intuitive, and falls out the Friis equation for free-space path loss.



$$ FSPL= 20log_10(d) + 20log_10(f) + 20log_10left(frac4picright)$$



Where $FSPL$ is the free space path loss in dB, $d$ is the distance in meters, and $f$ is the frequency in hertz, and $c$ is the speed of light. Note that as $f$ increases, the loss increases: a doubling in frequency results in a 6 dB increase in path loss.



This equation would lead you to believe that free space in some way attenuates higher frequencies more than lower frequencies, but that's not really the truth, even though it's a convenient lie we engineers tell ourselves. The "free space path loss" is actually a geometric effect that captures the "spread" of the electromagnetic wave as it propagates in free space, the same as how the beam of a flashlight spreads out when it's shone out into a big dark room.



The reason it's frequency dependent is because it does not account for the gain of the transmitting and receiving antenna - they are assumed to be isotropic. An isotropic antenna at a higher frequency is physically smaller than one at a lower frequency, which means that geometrically they have a smaller effective aperture.



If you keep the effective aperture of both antennas at both ends of the link the same physical size as you go up in frequency, you actually see that your path loss is independent of frequency. However, you would also find that the antennas are now directional: as you increase the aperture size, the transmitting antenna shoots a tighter and tighter beam, and the receiving antenna can only receive signals from a narrower and narrower cone. Since engineers usually think in terms of preserving a given antenna pattern and not in aperture size (since pointing antennas can be problematic), we commonly consider free space to have "loss" that increases with frequency when in reality that isn't quite the case.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



In general, yes, higher frequencies attenuate more the further distance they travel. There are two effects that are responsible for this.



First, higher frequency radio waves tend to be absorbed more readily by objects (ie: the penetration depth in the material is shorter). You may have noticed this effect with your home WiFi network. If you have a dual-band router, you probably have two networks, one at 2.4 GHz and one at 5 GHz. You may have noticed that the 2.4 GHz network reaches some corners of your house that the 5 GHz network does not - this is because the 2.4 GHz network penetrates walls better than the 5 GHz network does.



In terms of fifth-generation cell networks, this is the principal effect that limits range: people prefer to live in houses and apartment buildings, and those houses absorb more RF energy at higher frequencies.



The second effect is less intuitive, and falls out the Friis equation for free-space path loss.



$$ FSPL= 20log_10(d) + 20log_10(f) + 20log_10left(frac4picright)$$



Where $FSPL$ is the free space path loss in dB, $d$ is the distance in meters, and $f$ is the frequency in hertz, and $c$ is the speed of light. Note that as $f$ increases, the loss increases: a doubling in frequency results in a 6 dB increase in path loss.



This equation would lead you to believe that free space in some way attenuates higher frequencies more than lower frequencies, but that's not really the truth, even though it's a convenient lie we engineers tell ourselves. The "free space path loss" is actually a geometric effect that captures the "spread" of the electromagnetic wave as it propagates in free space, the same as how the beam of a flashlight spreads out when it's shone out into a big dark room.



The reason it's frequency dependent is because it does not account for the gain of the transmitting and receiving antenna - they are assumed to be isotropic. An isotropic antenna at a higher frequency is physically smaller than one at a lower frequency, which means that geometrically they have a smaller effective aperture.



If you keep the effective aperture of both antennas at both ends of the link the same physical size as you go up in frequency, you actually see that your path loss is independent of frequency. However, you would also find that the antennas are now directional: as you increase the aperture size, the transmitting antenna shoots a tighter and tighter beam, and the receiving antenna can only receive signals from a narrower and narrower cone. Since engineers usually think in terms of preserving a given antenna pattern and not in aperture size (since pointing antennas can be problematic), we commonly consider free space to have "loss" that increases with frequency when in reality that isn't quite the case.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 8 hours ago

























answered 8 hours ago









PeterPeter

2,7821122




2,7821122











  • $begingroup$
    Doesn't look like inline math formatting with single enclosing dollar signs is working - anyone have any ideas about what I did wrong?
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    8 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    You need to use $ instead of $ here. This is done differently on different sites due to the tradeoff of misformatting currency or code.
    $endgroup$
    – Kevin Reid
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thanks, that worked.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thank you very much! It's really detailed answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Piotrek
    7 hours ago
















  • $begingroup$
    Doesn't look like inline math formatting with single enclosing dollar signs is working - anyone have any ideas about what I did wrong?
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    8 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    You need to use $ instead of $ here. This is done differently on different sites due to the tradeoff of misformatting currency or code.
    $endgroup$
    – Kevin Reid
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thanks, that worked.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thank you very much! It's really detailed answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Piotrek
    7 hours ago















$begingroup$
Doesn't look like inline math formatting with single enclosing dollar signs is working - anyone have any ideas about what I did wrong?
$endgroup$
– Peter
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
Doesn't look like inline math formatting with single enclosing dollar signs is working - anyone have any ideas about what I did wrong?
$endgroup$
– Peter
8 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
You need to use $ instead of $ here. This is done differently on different sites due to the tradeoff of misformatting currency or code.
$endgroup$
– Kevin Reid
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
You need to use $ instead of $ here. This is done differently on different sites due to the tradeoff of misformatting currency or code.
$endgroup$
– Kevin Reid
8 hours ago












$begingroup$
Thanks, that worked.
$endgroup$
– Peter
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
Thanks, that worked.
$endgroup$
– Peter
8 hours ago












$begingroup$
Thank you very much! It's really detailed answer.
$endgroup$
– Piotrek
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
Thank you very much! It's really detailed answer.
$endgroup$
– Piotrek
7 hours ago










Piotrek is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









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Piotrek is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












Piotrek is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











Piotrek is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














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