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Why can't I prove summation identities without guessing?


Examples where it is easier to prove more than lessWhat is the proper way to extend the Fibonacci numbers to negative numbers?Can one prove that there is only one proof?Proving the Schwarz Inequality for Complex Numbers using InductionProof that $left(sum^n_k=1x_kright)left(sum^n_k=1y_kright)geq n^2$Prove by Induction AM-GMTriangular Inequality using InductionWhy is Mathematical Induction used to prove solvable inequalities?Induction Proof The sum of the first n odd squaresIs it possible to prove that for $x,y,z in BbbR$; if $x,y,z >0$ and $xyz=1$, then $(x+y+z)ge 3$ without using the AM-GM inequality?Classical examples of mathematical inductionProof Ideas - Strong Induction, Pascal's Triangle and Fibonacci NumbersHow do I prove the following summation notation problem using weak induction?













3












$begingroup$


In order to prove using induction that




$$sum_k = 1^n k = fracn(n+1)2$$




I have to first guess what the sum is and then show that this guess bears out using induction. This is very unusual for induction proofs. The proof by induction of the generalized triangle inequality




$$sum_k = 1^n |x_k| geq left|sum_k = 1^n x_kright|$$




requires no such guessing. Why can't I prove summation identities the same way I prove the triangle inequality?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 18




    $begingroup$
    Because before proving an identity you must have an identity.
    $endgroup$
    – José Carlos Santos
    6 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @JoséCarlosSantos it's still weird; there should be a rational way of deriving the identity through the process of induction.
    $endgroup$
    – ErotemeObelus
    6 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Why doesn't your second example involve guessing in your opinion? It seems to me that when using induction you always have to guess the solution first (which is reflected by the need of an induction hypothesis).
    $endgroup$
    – asdq
    6 hours ago







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    You can use the calculus of finite differences to evaluate such sums in a systematic way, just as integrals are evaluated systematically in calculus.
    $endgroup$
    – littleO
    6 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Suggested change of question to more broadly consider any sort of induction problem, since the issue here is about induction and not so much about sums from what I gather.
    $endgroup$
    – Simply Beautiful Art
    6 hours ago















3












$begingroup$


In order to prove using induction that




$$sum_k = 1^n k = fracn(n+1)2$$




I have to first guess what the sum is and then show that this guess bears out using induction. This is very unusual for induction proofs. The proof by induction of the generalized triangle inequality




$$sum_k = 1^n |x_k| geq left|sum_k = 1^n x_kright|$$




requires no such guessing. Why can't I prove summation identities the same way I prove the triangle inequality?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 18




    $begingroup$
    Because before proving an identity you must have an identity.
    $endgroup$
    – José Carlos Santos
    6 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @JoséCarlosSantos it's still weird; there should be a rational way of deriving the identity through the process of induction.
    $endgroup$
    – ErotemeObelus
    6 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Why doesn't your second example involve guessing in your opinion? It seems to me that when using induction you always have to guess the solution first (which is reflected by the need of an induction hypothesis).
    $endgroup$
    – asdq
    6 hours ago







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    You can use the calculus of finite differences to evaluate such sums in a systematic way, just as integrals are evaluated systematically in calculus.
    $endgroup$
    – littleO
    6 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Suggested change of question to more broadly consider any sort of induction problem, since the issue here is about induction and not so much about sums from what I gather.
    $endgroup$
    – Simply Beautiful Art
    6 hours ago













3












3








3


2



$begingroup$


In order to prove using induction that




$$sum_k = 1^n k = fracn(n+1)2$$




I have to first guess what the sum is and then show that this guess bears out using induction. This is very unusual for induction proofs. The proof by induction of the generalized triangle inequality




$$sum_k = 1^n |x_k| geq left|sum_k = 1^n x_kright|$$




requires no such guessing. Why can't I prove summation identities the same way I prove the triangle inequality?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




In order to prove using induction that




$$sum_k = 1^n k = fracn(n+1)2$$




I have to first guess what the sum is and then show that this guess bears out using induction. This is very unusual for induction proofs. The proof by induction of the generalized triangle inequality




$$sum_k = 1^n |x_k| geq left|sum_k = 1^n x_kright|$$




requires no such guessing. Why can't I prove summation identities the same way I prove the triangle inequality?







proof-writing induction






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited 6 hours ago







ErotemeObelus

















asked 6 hours ago









ErotemeObelusErotemeObelus

7381724




7381724







  • 18




    $begingroup$
    Because before proving an identity you must have an identity.
    $endgroup$
    – José Carlos Santos
    6 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @JoséCarlosSantos it's still weird; there should be a rational way of deriving the identity through the process of induction.
    $endgroup$
    – ErotemeObelus
    6 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Why doesn't your second example involve guessing in your opinion? It seems to me that when using induction you always have to guess the solution first (which is reflected by the need of an induction hypothesis).
    $endgroup$
    – asdq
    6 hours ago







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    You can use the calculus of finite differences to evaluate such sums in a systematic way, just as integrals are evaluated systematically in calculus.
    $endgroup$
    – littleO
    6 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Suggested change of question to more broadly consider any sort of induction problem, since the issue here is about induction and not so much about sums from what I gather.
    $endgroup$
    – Simply Beautiful Art
    6 hours ago












  • 18




    $begingroup$
    Because before proving an identity you must have an identity.
    $endgroup$
    – José Carlos Santos
    6 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @JoséCarlosSantos it's still weird; there should be a rational way of deriving the identity through the process of induction.
    $endgroup$
    – ErotemeObelus
    6 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Why doesn't your second example involve guessing in your opinion? It seems to me that when using induction you always have to guess the solution first (which is reflected by the need of an induction hypothesis).
    $endgroup$
    – asdq
    6 hours ago







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    You can use the calculus of finite differences to evaluate such sums in a systematic way, just as integrals are evaluated systematically in calculus.
    $endgroup$
    – littleO
    6 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Suggested change of question to more broadly consider any sort of induction problem, since the issue here is about induction and not so much about sums from what I gather.
    $endgroup$
    – Simply Beautiful Art
    6 hours ago







18




18




$begingroup$
Because before proving an identity you must have an identity.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
6 hours ago





$begingroup$
Because before proving an identity you must have an identity.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
6 hours ago













$begingroup$
@JoséCarlosSantos it's still weird; there should be a rational way of deriving the identity through the process of induction.
$endgroup$
– ErotemeObelus
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
@JoséCarlosSantos it's still weird; there should be a rational way of deriving the identity through the process of induction.
$endgroup$
– ErotemeObelus
6 hours ago




3




3




$begingroup$
Why doesn't your second example involve guessing in your opinion? It seems to me that when using induction you always have to guess the solution first (which is reflected by the need of an induction hypothesis).
$endgroup$
– asdq
6 hours ago





$begingroup$
Why doesn't your second example involve guessing in your opinion? It seems to me that when using induction you always have to guess the solution first (which is reflected by the need of an induction hypothesis).
$endgroup$
– asdq
6 hours ago





5




5




$begingroup$
You can use the calculus of finite differences to evaluate such sums in a systematic way, just as integrals are evaluated systematically in calculus.
$endgroup$
– littleO
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
You can use the calculus of finite differences to evaluate such sums in a systematic way, just as integrals are evaluated systematically in calculus.
$endgroup$
– littleO
6 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
Suggested change of question to more broadly consider any sort of induction problem, since the issue here is about induction and not so much about sums from what I gather.
$endgroup$
– Simply Beautiful Art
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
Suggested change of question to more broadly consider any sort of induction problem, since the issue here is about induction and not so much about sums from what I gather.
$endgroup$
– Simply Beautiful Art
6 hours ago










5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes


















5












$begingroup$

Proofs of inequalities by induction often use the $n=2$ case for the inductive step, so knowing that case automatically makes you know the general result. In particular, it's the kind of reasoning a normal person would achieve, albeit in an unclear form, if they'd never heard of "proof by induction". They wouldn't even need to be told what to try to prove. In this case, the result is essentially that the shortest path between two points on a line involves no double-backing.



Sums, on the other hand, are about as difficult to figure out as antiderivatives, and for much the same reason (integration is to continuous problems what addition is to discrete ones) - and of course, that's very hard. In fact, one way to state a proof by induction of a sum - by checking the difference between consecutive partial sums takes the desired value, so the sum telescopes - closely mirrors the use of differentiation to double-check a putative antiderivative. (Fun fact: the odd antiderivative of $sec x$ was correctly conjectured before the fundamental theorem of calculus had been proven, so it couldn't be checked the way we'd do it today. It's as if they couldn't do the inductive step in a discrete problem.)



The need to know the conjecture before you can prove it is one obvious downside of induction, when the downside applies. Luckily, you can often guess the answer easily enough by trying the first few values. So you could also think of induction as a way to automate the conversion of a guess from examples to a proof. The name similarity to induction in philosophy isn't all that inappropriate.



Now, sometimes it's a lot harder. If I asked you to evaluate $sum_k=1^n kx^k$ by jumping straight into induction, you probably wouldn't guess the right conjecture to start an inductive proof. However, just about any strategy you'd use instead of that would build on an easy inductive result. (For example, can you work out $sum_k=1^n x^k$ by the guess-then-verify technique? I bet you can. Now just apply $xpartial_x$.) So the "easy" way to turn the induction handle is more powerful than it seems at first. As with many techniques, induction is very simple in theory but potentially very hard to use in practice; it often comes down to knowing which claim to prove for all $n$. But don't worry: it's not just induction that can be easier if you try to prove more.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Is there a good reason why sums are much more difficult than other inductive cases? Yes you said "sums are as difficult as antiderivatives" (I strongly agree) but what is the reason for this?
    $endgroup$
    – ErotemeObelus
    6 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @J.G. perhaps you misread their question. They are not asking why antiderivatives are hard. They are asking why sums are "just as hard".
    $endgroup$
    – Simply Beautiful Art
    6 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @J.G. 1. this explains why antidifferentiation is hard, but not why summing is as hard as antidifferentiation 2. the answers are wrong (integration is just as local as derivation)
    $endgroup$
    – ErotemeObelus
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    See my edited answer.
    $endgroup$
    – J.G.
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    From what your answer looks like, it appears you are going for the argument that symmetric (in)equations are easier since they usually boil down to the 2-variable case, while other problems have the inductive step usually depending on $n$.
    $endgroup$
    – Simply Beautiful Art
    6 hours ago


















9












$begingroup$

Note that there is a difference between




Prove that $displaystylesum_k=1^nk=fracn(n+1)2$ by induction.




and




Derive a closed form for $displaystylesum_k=1^nk$.




The former tells you what to use induction on, while the latter does not. In the case of the second problem, note that induction is not required. However, induction may be used. A good example of when I would do such might be in this problem:




Derive a closed form for $displaystylesum_k=1^n(2k-1)$.




Often times, whether it be discrete or continuous, checking how some cases work out, either by writing out a few values or plotting on a graph, can be very helpful for intuition. In this problem, you can see the first few terms are given as:



$displaystylesum_k=1^1(2k-1)=1$



$displaystylesum_k=1^2(2k-1)=4$



$displaystylesum_k=1^3(2k-1)=9$



$displaystylesum_k=1^4(2k-1)=16$



which my intuition tells me that we most likely have



$displaystylesum_k=1^n(2k-1)=n^2$



to which I would then apply induction. If this was not clear to me, I would probably use some other method to evaluate this.




The key idea is that, yes, there is a guess involved. This guess may be wrong or right. But the guess is not blind, rather it is an educated guess. You can write out a few terms to see what you want your guess to be. And induction is not the only method by which you can prove things, there's plenty of other approaches to any given problem.







share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    It is morally speaking better to derive the closed form through the process of proving it by induction than having to presuppose the closed form.
    $endgroup$
    – ErotemeObelus
    6 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Morally speaking? And what do you mean to derive the closed form through the process of induction? Deriving something implies it came from somewhere, but where did it come from, for you to begin to use induction on it?
    $endgroup$
    – Simply Beautiful Art
    6 hours ago


















6












$begingroup$

The reason why you cannot prove the statement by induction withpout guessing is because there is nothing to prove:



Just look for example at
$$sum_k=1^n k^2$$



If you don't guess what the sum is, what are you proving by induction? What is your induction statement? Is that the sum is unknown?



As for the reason why the second involves no guessing is because you already have both sides.



Note that the second relation is an inequality, the first is an equality after guessing. The two problems are similar/comparable only after you make the right guess. Before that, you are comparing two completely different type of problems and wonder why a tool only works for one...



Now, what you probably wonder is why the first type of problem is given in an incomplete form (i.e. not a complete equality), while the second must be given in complete form...This is actually what makes the two problems different.



The answer is actually simple: Given a sum, there is an unique closed form which can be equal to your sum. For an inequality, there are infinitely many ways to complete it, and some make the problem much easier. That's why we need both sides.



Just to emphasize the last point, assume that an inequality is given as a guess:
Prove by inducton that
$$sum_k = 1^n |x_k| geq ??$$



Now, what is the logical RHS? Is it the one from the question posted by you? Is it $0$? Is it $-2019$?



What about
$$sum_k = 1^n |x_k| geq left|x_1-x_2+x_3-x_4+...right|$$



or
$$sum_k = 1^n |x_k| geq sqrt[n]prod_k=1^n left$$



All of those are true inequalities, some are easier than others. But all of them are completely different problems.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    If you must derive the sum without induction then you don't really need induction to prove it do you
    $endgroup$
    – ErotemeObelus
    5 hours ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @ErotemeObelus Well, yes and no. The key here is that sometimes you can derive the sum without induction, and then yes you don't need induction to prove it. But given a sum, you can always guess a POTENTIAL answer, and then try to prove it by induction. If your guess is right, the problem usually becomes easy once you apply induction. If the guess is wrong, you'll see when doing the induction that it is wrong. And then, make another guess. Noyte that until proving it, your guess is just a guess.
    $endgroup$
    – N. S.
    5 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @ErotemeObelus To understand the difference, just look at $sum_k=1^n k^3$. You can calcualte this sum without induction, but unless you seen the technique before it is very tricky... Just try it yourself.. With induction here is how one would proceed $$sum_k=1^1 k^3=1\ sum_k=1^2 k^3=9 \ sum_k=1^3 k^3=36 \ sum_k=1^4 k^3=100$$ You should imediately recognize that all these numbers are prefect squares and then see that $$sum_k=1^1 k^3=1^2\ sum_k=1^2 k^3=3^2 \ sum_k=1^3 k^3=6^2 \ sum_k=1^4 k^3=10^2$$ At this point, if you are familiar with triangular numbers
    $endgroup$
    – N. S.
    5 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    if note, you either calculate few more terms, or just stare at them until you observe the somewhat obvious pattern, especially if you also calcualte $mn=5,6..$: $$3-1=2 \6-3=3\10-6 =4 \15-10=5\21-15=6$$ At the end of the day, guessing the right formula here and then proving it by induction is easier and faster than proving it without induction.... Of course in some problems guessing can be really tricky, but those are not good induction sum problems ;) Don't expect every sum to be easy to guess and prove by induction, that would make many areas of mathematics very easy.
    $endgroup$
    – N. S.
    5 hours ago



















1












$begingroup$

Theorem discovery and proof are simply different processes. Quoting from Rosen, Discrete Mathematics and its Applications, 7th Edition, Sec. 5.1, "The Good and the Bad of Mathematical Induction":




An important point needs to be made about mathematical induction
before we commence a study of its use. The good thing about
mathematical induction is that it can be used to prove a conjecture
once it is has been made (and is true). The bad thing about it is that
it cannot be used to find new theorems. Mathematicians sometimes find
proofs by mathematical induction unsatisfying because they do not
provide insights as to why theorems are true. Many theorems can be
proved in many ways, including by mathematical induction. Proofs of
these theorems by methods other than mathematical induction are often
preferred because of the insights they bring.




And, in a sidebar:




You can prove a theorem by mathematical induction even if you do not
have the slightest idea why it is true!







share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    The problem is that if mathematical induction can't find theorems, then it's self-defeating. Why? Because in the process of finding the theorem, you discover why it is true (and find a proof as a side-effect) making proving by induction redundant.
    $endgroup$
    – ErotemeObelus
    1 hour ago


















0












$begingroup$

You seem to want to ask about how we can guess the correct formula for a general summation. For summation of perfect powers, or in general polynomials, see this post which explains a very efficient method to derive the closed-formula without any guessing whatsoever.



However, expressions can be hard to simplify even if you know it can be simplified. For example, you can prove that $F_n-1 F_n+1 - F_n^2 = (-1)^n$ by induction, where $F_n$ is the $n$-th fibonacci number, but if I simply asked you to simplify $F_n-1 F_n+1 - F_n^2$ without guessing the pattern, it is harder. It can be done, and the algebraic proof is very elegant, but you need mathematical insight.



Also, there is an inherent complexity in some theorems that can only be proven using induction, in a precise technical sense. For example, some theorems that can be proven by PA or ACA0 must use an induction axiom, and by this I mean that we can prove that it cannot be proven without using any induction axiom. In this post you can find two examples of such theorems, including the well-known facts:



  • Every natural number is either a multiple of two or one more than a multiple of two.

  • There is no ratio of positive integers whose square is two.

There is a field of mathematics called Reverse Mathematics that studies finer distinctions, such as how much induction is needed. Many high-school problems can be solved using quantifier-free induction. These same problems often can be proven algebraically in a manner that hides the induction, say via telescoping. For instance, $sum_k=1^n (6k^2+2) = sum_k=1^n big( (k+1)^3-(k-1)^3 big)$. But there is no easy systematic way to find such telescoping sums.






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    5 Answers
    5






    active

    oldest

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    5 Answers
    5






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    5












    $begingroup$

    Proofs of inequalities by induction often use the $n=2$ case for the inductive step, so knowing that case automatically makes you know the general result. In particular, it's the kind of reasoning a normal person would achieve, albeit in an unclear form, if they'd never heard of "proof by induction". They wouldn't even need to be told what to try to prove. In this case, the result is essentially that the shortest path between two points on a line involves no double-backing.



    Sums, on the other hand, are about as difficult to figure out as antiderivatives, and for much the same reason (integration is to continuous problems what addition is to discrete ones) - and of course, that's very hard. In fact, one way to state a proof by induction of a sum - by checking the difference between consecutive partial sums takes the desired value, so the sum telescopes - closely mirrors the use of differentiation to double-check a putative antiderivative. (Fun fact: the odd antiderivative of $sec x$ was correctly conjectured before the fundamental theorem of calculus had been proven, so it couldn't be checked the way we'd do it today. It's as if they couldn't do the inductive step in a discrete problem.)



    The need to know the conjecture before you can prove it is one obvious downside of induction, when the downside applies. Luckily, you can often guess the answer easily enough by trying the first few values. So you could also think of induction as a way to automate the conversion of a guess from examples to a proof. The name similarity to induction in philosophy isn't all that inappropriate.



    Now, sometimes it's a lot harder. If I asked you to evaluate $sum_k=1^n kx^k$ by jumping straight into induction, you probably wouldn't guess the right conjecture to start an inductive proof. However, just about any strategy you'd use instead of that would build on an easy inductive result. (For example, can you work out $sum_k=1^n x^k$ by the guess-then-verify technique? I bet you can. Now just apply $xpartial_x$.) So the "easy" way to turn the induction handle is more powerful than it seems at first. As with many techniques, induction is very simple in theory but potentially very hard to use in practice; it often comes down to knowing which claim to prove for all $n$. But don't worry: it's not just induction that can be easier if you try to prove more.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      Is there a good reason why sums are much more difficult than other inductive cases? Yes you said "sums are as difficult as antiderivatives" (I strongly agree) but what is the reason for this?
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      6 hours ago











    • $begingroup$
      @J.G. perhaps you misread their question. They are not asking why antiderivatives are hard. They are asking why sums are "just as hard".
      $endgroup$
      – Simply Beautiful Art
      6 hours ago











    • $begingroup$
      @J.G. 1. this explains why antidifferentiation is hard, but not why summing is as hard as antidifferentiation 2. the answers are wrong (integration is just as local as derivation)
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      See my edited answer.
      $endgroup$
      – J.G.
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      From what your answer looks like, it appears you are going for the argument that symmetric (in)equations are easier since they usually boil down to the 2-variable case, while other problems have the inductive step usually depending on $n$.
      $endgroup$
      – Simply Beautiful Art
      6 hours ago















    5












    $begingroup$

    Proofs of inequalities by induction often use the $n=2$ case for the inductive step, so knowing that case automatically makes you know the general result. In particular, it's the kind of reasoning a normal person would achieve, albeit in an unclear form, if they'd never heard of "proof by induction". They wouldn't even need to be told what to try to prove. In this case, the result is essentially that the shortest path between two points on a line involves no double-backing.



    Sums, on the other hand, are about as difficult to figure out as antiderivatives, and for much the same reason (integration is to continuous problems what addition is to discrete ones) - and of course, that's very hard. In fact, one way to state a proof by induction of a sum - by checking the difference between consecutive partial sums takes the desired value, so the sum telescopes - closely mirrors the use of differentiation to double-check a putative antiderivative. (Fun fact: the odd antiderivative of $sec x$ was correctly conjectured before the fundamental theorem of calculus had been proven, so it couldn't be checked the way we'd do it today. It's as if they couldn't do the inductive step in a discrete problem.)



    The need to know the conjecture before you can prove it is one obvious downside of induction, when the downside applies. Luckily, you can often guess the answer easily enough by trying the first few values. So you could also think of induction as a way to automate the conversion of a guess from examples to a proof. The name similarity to induction in philosophy isn't all that inappropriate.



    Now, sometimes it's a lot harder. If I asked you to evaluate $sum_k=1^n kx^k$ by jumping straight into induction, you probably wouldn't guess the right conjecture to start an inductive proof. However, just about any strategy you'd use instead of that would build on an easy inductive result. (For example, can you work out $sum_k=1^n x^k$ by the guess-then-verify technique? I bet you can. Now just apply $xpartial_x$.) So the "easy" way to turn the induction handle is more powerful than it seems at first. As with many techniques, induction is very simple in theory but potentially very hard to use in practice; it often comes down to knowing which claim to prove for all $n$. But don't worry: it's not just induction that can be easier if you try to prove more.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      Is there a good reason why sums are much more difficult than other inductive cases? Yes you said "sums are as difficult as antiderivatives" (I strongly agree) but what is the reason for this?
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      6 hours ago











    • $begingroup$
      @J.G. perhaps you misread their question. They are not asking why antiderivatives are hard. They are asking why sums are "just as hard".
      $endgroup$
      – Simply Beautiful Art
      6 hours ago











    • $begingroup$
      @J.G. 1. this explains why antidifferentiation is hard, but not why summing is as hard as antidifferentiation 2. the answers are wrong (integration is just as local as derivation)
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      See my edited answer.
      $endgroup$
      – J.G.
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      From what your answer looks like, it appears you are going for the argument that symmetric (in)equations are easier since they usually boil down to the 2-variable case, while other problems have the inductive step usually depending on $n$.
      $endgroup$
      – Simply Beautiful Art
      6 hours ago













    5












    5








    5





    $begingroup$

    Proofs of inequalities by induction often use the $n=2$ case for the inductive step, so knowing that case automatically makes you know the general result. In particular, it's the kind of reasoning a normal person would achieve, albeit in an unclear form, if they'd never heard of "proof by induction". They wouldn't even need to be told what to try to prove. In this case, the result is essentially that the shortest path between two points on a line involves no double-backing.



    Sums, on the other hand, are about as difficult to figure out as antiderivatives, and for much the same reason (integration is to continuous problems what addition is to discrete ones) - and of course, that's very hard. In fact, one way to state a proof by induction of a sum - by checking the difference between consecutive partial sums takes the desired value, so the sum telescopes - closely mirrors the use of differentiation to double-check a putative antiderivative. (Fun fact: the odd antiderivative of $sec x$ was correctly conjectured before the fundamental theorem of calculus had been proven, so it couldn't be checked the way we'd do it today. It's as if they couldn't do the inductive step in a discrete problem.)



    The need to know the conjecture before you can prove it is one obvious downside of induction, when the downside applies. Luckily, you can often guess the answer easily enough by trying the first few values. So you could also think of induction as a way to automate the conversion of a guess from examples to a proof. The name similarity to induction in philosophy isn't all that inappropriate.



    Now, sometimes it's a lot harder. If I asked you to evaluate $sum_k=1^n kx^k$ by jumping straight into induction, you probably wouldn't guess the right conjecture to start an inductive proof. However, just about any strategy you'd use instead of that would build on an easy inductive result. (For example, can you work out $sum_k=1^n x^k$ by the guess-then-verify technique? I bet you can. Now just apply $xpartial_x$.) So the "easy" way to turn the induction handle is more powerful than it seems at first. As with many techniques, induction is very simple in theory but potentially very hard to use in practice; it often comes down to knowing which claim to prove for all $n$. But don't worry: it's not just induction that can be easier if you try to prove more.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    Proofs of inequalities by induction often use the $n=2$ case for the inductive step, so knowing that case automatically makes you know the general result. In particular, it's the kind of reasoning a normal person would achieve, albeit in an unclear form, if they'd never heard of "proof by induction". They wouldn't even need to be told what to try to prove. In this case, the result is essentially that the shortest path between two points on a line involves no double-backing.



    Sums, on the other hand, are about as difficult to figure out as antiderivatives, and for much the same reason (integration is to continuous problems what addition is to discrete ones) - and of course, that's very hard. In fact, one way to state a proof by induction of a sum - by checking the difference between consecutive partial sums takes the desired value, so the sum telescopes - closely mirrors the use of differentiation to double-check a putative antiderivative. (Fun fact: the odd antiderivative of $sec x$ was correctly conjectured before the fundamental theorem of calculus had been proven, so it couldn't be checked the way we'd do it today. It's as if they couldn't do the inductive step in a discrete problem.)



    The need to know the conjecture before you can prove it is one obvious downside of induction, when the downside applies. Luckily, you can often guess the answer easily enough by trying the first few values. So you could also think of induction as a way to automate the conversion of a guess from examples to a proof. The name similarity to induction in philosophy isn't all that inappropriate.



    Now, sometimes it's a lot harder. If I asked you to evaluate $sum_k=1^n kx^k$ by jumping straight into induction, you probably wouldn't guess the right conjecture to start an inductive proof. However, just about any strategy you'd use instead of that would build on an easy inductive result. (For example, can you work out $sum_k=1^n x^k$ by the guess-then-verify technique? I bet you can. Now just apply $xpartial_x$.) So the "easy" way to turn the induction handle is more powerful than it seems at first. As with many techniques, induction is very simple in theory but potentially very hard to use in practice; it often comes down to knowing which claim to prove for all $n$. But don't worry: it's not just induction that can be easier if you try to prove more.







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited 6 hours ago

























    answered 6 hours ago









    J.G.J.G.

    36.6k23656




    36.6k23656











    • $begingroup$
      Is there a good reason why sums are much more difficult than other inductive cases? Yes you said "sums are as difficult as antiderivatives" (I strongly agree) but what is the reason for this?
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      6 hours ago











    • $begingroup$
      @J.G. perhaps you misread their question. They are not asking why antiderivatives are hard. They are asking why sums are "just as hard".
      $endgroup$
      – Simply Beautiful Art
      6 hours ago











    • $begingroup$
      @J.G. 1. this explains why antidifferentiation is hard, but not why summing is as hard as antidifferentiation 2. the answers are wrong (integration is just as local as derivation)
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      See my edited answer.
      $endgroup$
      – J.G.
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      From what your answer looks like, it appears you are going for the argument that symmetric (in)equations are easier since they usually boil down to the 2-variable case, while other problems have the inductive step usually depending on $n$.
      $endgroup$
      – Simply Beautiful Art
      6 hours ago
















    • $begingroup$
      Is there a good reason why sums are much more difficult than other inductive cases? Yes you said "sums are as difficult as antiderivatives" (I strongly agree) but what is the reason for this?
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      6 hours ago











    • $begingroup$
      @J.G. perhaps you misread their question. They are not asking why antiderivatives are hard. They are asking why sums are "just as hard".
      $endgroup$
      – Simply Beautiful Art
      6 hours ago











    • $begingroup$
      @J.G. 1. this explains why antidifferentiation is hard, but not why summing is as hard as antidifferentiation 2. the answers are wrong (integration is just as local as derivation)
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      See my edited answer.
      $endgroup$
      – J.G.
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      From what your answer looks like, it appears you are going for the argument that symmetric (in)equations are easier since they usually boil down to the 2-variable case, while other problems have the inductive step usually depending on $n$.
      $endgroup$
      – Simply Beautiful Art
      6 hours ago















    $begingroup$
    Is there a good reason why sums are much more difficult than other inductive cases? Yes you said "sums are as difficult as antiderivatives" (I strongly agree) but what is the reason for this?
    $endgroup$
    – ErotemeObelus
    6 hours ago





    $begingroup$
    Is there a good reason why sums are much more difficult than other inductive cases? Yes you said "sums are as difficult as antiderivatives" (I strongly agree) but what is the reason for this?
    $endgroup$
    – ErotemeObelus
    6 hours ago













    $begingroup$
    @J.G. perhaps you misread their question. They are not asking why antiderivatives are hard. They are asking why sums are "just as hard".
    $endgroup$
    – Simply Beautiful Art
    6 hours ago





    $begingroup$
    @J.G. perhaps you misread their question. They are not asking why antiderivatives are hard. They are asking why sums are "just as hard".
    $endgroup$
    – Simply Beautiful Art
    6 hours ago













    $begingroup$
    @J.G. 1. this explains why antidifferentiation is hard, but not why summing is as hard as antidifferentiation 2. the answers are wrong (integration is just as local as derivation)
    $endgroup$
    – ErotemeObelus
    6 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    @J.G. 1. this explains why antidifferentiation is hard, but not why summing is as hard as antidifferentiation 2. the answers are wrong (integration is just as local as derivation)
    $endgroup$
    – ErotemeObelus
    6 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    See my edited answer.
    $endgroup$
    – J.G.
    6 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    See my edited answer.
    $endgroup$
    – J.G.
    6 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    From what your answer looks like, it appears you are going for the argument that symmetric (in)equations are easier since they usually boil down to the 2-variable case, while other problems have the inductive step usually depending on $n$.
    $endgroup$
    – Simply Beautiful Art
    6 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    From what your answer looks like, it appears you are going for the argument that symmetric (in)equations are easier since they usually boil down to the 2-variable case, while other problems have the inductive step usually depending on $n$.
    $endgroup$
    – Simply Beautiful Art
    6 hours ago











    9












    $begingroup$

    Note that there is a difference between




    Prove that $displaystylesum_k=1^nk=fracn(n+1)2$ by induction.




    and




    Derive a closed form for $displaystylesum_k=1^nk$.




    The former tells you what to use induction on, while the latter does not. In the case of the second problem, note that induction is not required. However, induction may be used. A good example of when I would do such might be in this problem:




    Derive a closed form for $displaystylesum_k=1^n(2k-1)$.




    Often times, whether it be discrete or continuous, checking how some cases work out, either by writing out a few values or plotting on a graph, can be very helpful for intuition. In this problem, you can see the first few terms are given as:



    $displaystylesum_k=1^1(2k-1)=1$



    $displaystylesum_k=1^2(2k-1)=4$



    $displaystylesum_k=1^3(2k-1)=9$



    $displaystylesum_k=1^4(2k-1)=16$



    which my intuition tells me that we most likely have



    $displaystylesum_k=1^n(2k-1)=n^2$



    to which I would then apply induction. If this was not clear to me, I would probably use some other method to evaluate this.




    The key idea is that, yes, there is a guess involved. This guess may be wrong or right. But the guess is not blind, rather it is an educated guess. You can write out a few terms to see what you want your guess to be. And induction is not the only method by which you can prove things, there's plenty of other approaches to any given problem.







    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      It is morally speaking better to derive the closed form through the process of proving it by induction than having to presuppose the closed form.
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      6 hours ago






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Morally speaking? And what do you mean to derive the closed form through the process of induction? Deriving something implies it came from somewhere, but where did it come from, for you to begin to use induction on it?
      $endgroup$
      – Simply Beautiful Art
      6 hours ago















    9












    $begingroup$

    Note that there is a difference between




    Prove that $displaystylesum_k=1^nk=fracn(n+1)2$ by induction.




    and




    Derive a closed form for $displaystylesum_k=1^nk$.




    The former tells you what to use induction on, while the latter does not. In the case of the second problem, note that induction is not required. However, induction may be used. A good example of when I would do such might be in this problem:




    Derive a closed form for $displaystylesum_k=1^n(2k-1)$.




    Often times, whether it be discrete or continuous, checking how some cases work out, either by writing out a few values or plotting on a graph, can be very helpful for intuition. In this problem, you can see the first few terms are given as:



    $displaystylesum_k=1^1(2k-1)=1$



    $displaystylesum_k=1^2(2k-1)=4$



    $displaystylesum_k=1^3(2k-1)=9$



    $displaystylesum_k=1^4(2k-1)=16$



    which my intuition tells me that we most likely have



    $displaystylesum_k=1^n(2k-1)=n^2$



    to which I would then apply induction. If this was not clear to me, I would probably use some other method to evaluate this.




    The key idea is that, yes, there is a guess involved. This guess may be wrong or right. But the guess is not blind, rather it is an educated guess. You can write out a few terms to see what you want your guess to be. And induction is not the only method by which you can prove things, there's plenty of other approaches to any given problem.







    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      It is morally speaking better to derive the closed form through the process of proving it by induction than having to presuppose the closed form.
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      6 hours ago






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Morally speaking? And what do you mean to derive the closed form through the process of induction? Deriving something implies it came from somewhere, but where did it come from, for you to begin to use induction on it?
      $endgroup$
      – Simply Beautiful Art
      6 hours ago













    9












    9








    9





    $begingroup$

    Note that there is a difference between




    Prove that $displaystylesum_k=1^nk=fracn(n+1)2$ by induction.




    and




    Derive a closed form for $displaystylesum_k=1^nk$.




    The former tells you what to use induction on, while the latter does not. In the case of the second problem, note that induction is not required. However, induction may be used. A good example of when I would do such might be in this problem:




    Derive a closed form for $displaystylesum_k=1^n(2k-1)$.




    Often times, whether it be discrete or continuous, checking how some cases work out, either by writing out a few values or plotting on a graph, can be very helpful for intuition. In this problem, you can see the first few terms are given as:



    $displaystylesum_k=1^1(2k-1)=1$



    $displaystylesum_k=1^2(2k-1)=4$



    $displaystylesum_k=1^3(2k-1)=9$



    $displaystylesum_k=1^4(2k-1)=16$



    which my intuition tells me that we most likely have



    $displaystylesum_k=1^n(2k-1)=n^2$



    to which I would then apply induction. If this was not clear to me, I would probably use some other method to evaluate this.




    The key idea is that, yes, there is a guess involved. This guess may be wrong or right. But the guess is not blind, rather it is an educated guess. You can write out a few terms to see what you want your guess to be. And induction is not the only method by which you can prove things, there's plenty of other approaches to any given problem.







    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    Note that there is a difference between




    Prove that $displaystylesum_k=1^nk=fracn(n+1)2$ by induction.




    and




    Derive a closed form for $displaystylesum_k=1^nk$.




    The former tells you what to use induction on, while the latter does not. In the case of the second problem, note that induction is not required. However, induction may be used. A good example of when I would do such might be in this problem:




    Derive a closed form for $displaystylesum_k=1^n(2k-1)$.




    Often times, whether it be discrete or continuous, checking how some cases work out, either by writing out a few values or plotting on a graph, can be very helpful for intuition. In this problem, you can see the first few terms are given as:



    $displaystylesum_k=1^1(2k-1)=1$



    $displaystylesum_k=1^2(2k-1)=4$



    $displaystylesum_k=1^3(2k-1)=9$



    $displaystylesum_k=1^4(2k-1)=16$



    which my intuition tells me that we most likely have



    $displaystylesum_k=1^n(2k-1)=n^2$



    to which I would then apply induction. If this was not clear to me, I would probably use some other method to evaluate this.




    The key idea is that, yes, there is a guess involved. This guess may be wrong or right. But the guess is not blind, rather it is an educated guess. You can write out a few terms to see what you want your guess to be. And induction is not the only method by which you can prove things, there's plenty of other approaches to any given problem.








    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered 6 hours ago









    Simply Beautiful ArtSimply Beautiful Art

    51.3k581186




    51.3k581186











    • $begingroup$
      It is morally speaking better to derive the closed form through the process of proving it by induction than having to presuppose the closed form.
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      6 hours ago






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Morally speaking? And what do you mean to derive the closed form through the process of induction? Deriving something implies it came from somewhere, but where did it come from, for you to begin to use induction on it?
      $endgroup$
      – Simply Beautiful Art
      6 hours ago
















    • $begingroup$
      It is morally speaking better to derive the closed form through the process of proving it by induction than having to presuppose the closed form.
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      6 hours ago






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Morally speaking? And what do you mean to derive the closed form through the process of induction? Deriving something implies it came from somewhere, but where did it come from, for you to begin to use induction on it?
      $endgroup$
      – Simply Beautiful Art
      6 hours ago















    $begingroup$
    It is morally speaking better to derive the closed form through the process of proving it by induction than having to presuppose the closed form.
    $endgroup$
    – ErotemeObelus
    6 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    It is morally speaking better to derive the closed form through the process of proving it by induction than having to presuppose the closed form.
    $endgroup$
    – ErotemeObelus
    6 hours ago




    2




    2




    $begingroup$
    Morally speaking? And what do you mean to derive the closed form through the process of induction? Deriving something implies it came from somewhere, but where did it come from, for you to begin to use induction on it?
    $endgroup$
    – Simply Beautiful Art
    6 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    Morally speaking? And what do you mean to derive the closed form through the process of induction? Deriving something implies it came from somewhere, but where did it come from, for you to begin to use induction on it?
    $endgroup$
    – Simply Beautiful Art
    6 hours ago











    6












    $begingroup$

    The reason why you cannot prove the statement by induction withpout guessing is because there is nothing to prove:



    Just look for example at
    $$sum_k=1^n k^2$$



    If you don't guess what the sum is, what are you proving by induction? What is your induction statement? Is that the sum is unknown?



    As for the reason why the second involves no guessing is because you already have both sides.



    Note that the second relation is an inequality, the first is an equality after guessing. The two problems are similar/comparable only after you make the right guess. Before that, you are comparing two completely different type of problems and wonder why a tool only works for one...



    Now, what you probably wonder is why the first type of problem is given in an incomplete form (i.e. not a complete equality), while the second must be given in complete form...This is actually what makes the two problems different.



    The answer is actually simple: Given a sum, there is an unique closed form which can be equal to your sum. For an inequality, there are infinitely many ways to complete it, and some make the problem much easier. That's why we need both sides.



    Just to emphasize the last point, assume that an inequality is given as a guess:
    Prove by inducton that
    $$sum_k = 1^n |x_k| geq ??$$



    Now, what is the logical RHS? Is it the one from the question posted by you? Is it $0$? Is it $-2019$?



    What about
    $$sum_k = 1^n |x_k| geq left|x_1-x_2+x_3-x_4+...right|$$



    or
    $$sum_k = 1^n |x_k| geq sqrt[n]prod_k=1^n left$$



    All of those are true inequalities, some are easier than others. But all of them are completely different problems.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      If you must derive the sum without induction then you don't really need induction to prove it do you
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      5 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @ErotemeObelus Well, yes and no. The key here is that sometimes you can derive the sum without induction, and then yes you don't need induction to prove it. But given a sum, you can always guess a POTENTIAL answer, and then try to prove it by induction. If your guess is right, the problem usually becomes easy once you apply induction. If the guess is wrong, you'll see when doing the induction that it is wrong. And then, make another guess. Noyte that until proving it, your guess is just a guess.
      $endgroup$
      – N. S.
      5 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @ErotemeObelus To understand the difference, just look at $sum_k=1^n k^3$. You can calcualte this sum without induction, but unless you seen the technique before it is very tricky... Just try it yourself.. With induction here is how one would proceed $$sum_k=1^1 k^3=1\ sum_k=1^2 k^3=9 \ sum_k=1^3 k^3=36 \ sum_k=1^4 k^3=100$$ You should imediately recognize that all these numbers are prefect squares and then see that $$sum_k=1^1 k^3=1^2\ sum_k=1^2 k^3=3^2 \ sum_k=1^3 k^3=6^2 \ sum_k=1^4 k^3=10^2$$ At this point, if you are familiar with triangular numbers
      $endgroup$
      – N. S.
      5 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      if note, you either calculate few more terms, or just stare at them until you observe the somewhat obvious pattern, especially if you also calcualte $mn=5,6..$: $$3-1=2 \6-3=3\10-6 =4 \15-10=5\21-15=6$$ At the end of the day, guessing the right formula here and then proving it by induction is easier and faster than proving it without induction.... Of course in some problems guessing can be really tricky, but those are not good induction sum problems ;) Don't expect every sum to be easy to guess and prove by induction, that would make many areas of mathematics very easy.
      $endgroup$
      – N. S.
      5 hours ago
















    6












    $begingroup$

    The reason why you cannot prove the statement by induction withpout guessing is because there is nothing to prove:



    Just look for example at
    $$sum_k=1^n k^2$$



    If you don't guess what the sum is, what are you proving by induction? What is your induction statement? Is that the sum is unknown?



    As for the reason why the second involves no guessing is because you already have both sides.



    Note that the second relation is an inequality, the first is an equality after guessing. The two problems are similar/comparable only after you make the right guess. Before that, you are comparing two completely different type of problems and wonder why a tool only works for one...



    Now, what you probably wonder is why the first type of problem is given in an incomplete form (i.e. not a complete equality), while the second must be given in complete form...This is actually what makes the two problems different.



    The answer is actually simple: Given a sum, there is an unique closed form which can be equal to your sum. For an inequality, there are infinitely many ways to complete it, and some make the problem much easier. That's why we need both sides.



    Just to emphasize the last point, assume that an inequality is given as a guess:
    Prove by inducton that
    $$sum_k = 1^n |x_k| geq ??$$



    Now, what is the logical RHS? Is it the one from the question posted by you? Is it $0$? Is it $-2019$?



    What about
    $$sum_k = 1^n |x_k| geq left|x_1-x_2+x_3-x_4+...right|$$



    or
    $$sum_k = 1^n |x_k| geq sqrt[n]prod_k=1^n left$$



    All of those are true inequalities, some are easier than others. But all of them are completely different problems.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      If you must derive the sum without induction then you don't really need induction to prove it do you
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      5 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @ErotemeObelus Well, yes and no. The key here is that sometimes you can derive the sum without induction, and then yes you don't need induction to prove it. But given a sum, you can always guess a POTENTIAL answer, and then try to prove it by induction. If your guess is right, the problem usually becomes easy once you apply induction. If the guess is wrong, you'll see when doing the induction that it is wrong. And then, make another guess. Noyte that until proving it, your guess is just a guess.
      $endgroup$
      – N. S.
      5 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @ErotemeObelus To understand the difference, just look at $sum_k=1^n k^3$. You can calcualte this sum without induction, but unless you seen the technique before it is very tricky... Just try it yourself.. With induction here is how one would proceed $$sum_k=1^1 k^3=1\ sum_k=1^2 k^3=9 \ sum_k=1^3 k^3=36 \ sum_k=1^4 k^3=100$$ You should imediately recognize that all these numbers are prefect squares and then see that $$sum_k=1^1 k^3=1^2\ sum_k=1^2 k^3=3^2 \ sum_k=1^3 k^3=6^2 \ sum_k=1^4 k^3=10^2$$ At this point, if you are familiar with triangular numbers
      $endgroup$
      – N. S.
      5 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      if note, you either calculate few more terms, or just stare at them until you observe the somewhat obvious pattern, especially if you also calcualte $mn=5,6..$: $$3-1=2 \6-3=3\10-6 =4 \15-10=5\21-15=6$$ At the end of the day, guessing the right formula here and then proving it by induction is easier and faster than proving it without induction.... Of course in some problems guessing can be really tricky, but those are not good induction sum problems ;) Don't expect every sum to be easy to guess and prove by induction, that would make many areas of mathematics very easy.
      $endgroup$
      – N. S.
      5 hours ago














    6












    6








    6





    $begingroup$

    The reason why you cannot prove the statement by induction withpout guessing is because there is nothing to prove:



    Just look for example at
    $$sum_k=1^n k^2$$



    If you don't guess what the sum is, what are you proving by induction? What is your induction statement? Is that the sum is unknown?



    As for the reason why the second involves no guessing is because you already have both sides.



    Note that the second relation is an inequality, the first is an equality after guessing. The two problems are similar/comparable only after you make the right guess. Before that, you are comparing two completely different type of problems and wonder why a tool only works for one...



    Now, what you probably wonder is why the first type of problem is given in an incomplete form (i.e. not a complete equality), while the second must be given in complete form...This is actually what makes the two problems different.



    The answer is actually simple: Given a sum, there is an unique closed form which can be equal to your sum. For an inequality, there are infinitely many ways to complete it, and some make the problem much easier. That's why we need both sides.



    Just to emphasize the last point, assume that an inequality is given as a guess:
    Prove by inducton that
    $$sum_k = 1^n |x_k| geq ??$$



    Now, what is the logical RHS? Is it the one from the question posted by you? Is it $0$? Is it $-2019$?



    What about
    $$sum_k = 1^n |x_k| geq left|x_1-x_2+x_3-x_4+...right|$$



    or
    $$sum_k = 1^n |x_k| geq sqrt[n]prod_k=1^n left$$



    All of those are true inequalities, some are easier than others. But all of them are completely different problems.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    The reason why you cannot prove the statement by induction withpout guessing is because there is nothing to prove:



    Just look for example at
    $$sum_k=1^n k^2$$



    If you don't guess what the sum is, what are you proving by induction? What is your induction statement? Is that the sum is unknown?



    As for the reason why the second involves no guessing is because you already have both sides.



    Note that the second relation is an inequality, the first is an equality after guessing. The two problems are similar/comparable only after you make the right guess. Before that, you are comparing two completely different type of problems and wonder why a tool only works for one...



    Now, what you probably wonder is why the first type of problem is given in an incomplete form (i.e. not a complete equality), while the second must be given in complete form...This is actually what makes the two problems different.



    The answer is actually simple: Given a sum, there is an unique closed form which can be equal to your sum. For an inequality, there are infinitely many ways to complete it, and some make the problem much easier. That's why we need both sides.



    Just to emphasize the last point, assume that an inequality is given as a guess:
    Prove by inducton that
    $$sum_k = 1^n |x_k| geq ??$$



    Now, what is the logical RHS? Is it the one from the question posted by you? Is it $0$? Is it $-2019$?



    What about
    $$sum_k = 1^n |x_k| geq left|x_1-x_2+x_3-x_4+...right|$$



    or
    $$sum_k = 1^n |x_k| geq sqrt[n]prod_k=1^n left$$



    All of those are true inequalities, some are easier than others. But all of them are completely different problems.







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered 6 hours ago









    N. S.N. S.

    106k7117211




    106k7117211











    • $begingroup$
      If you must derive the sum without induction then you don't really need induction to prove it do you
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      5 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @ErotemeObelus Well, yes and no. The key here is that sometimes you can derive the sum without induction, and then yes you don't need induction to prove it. But given a sum, you can always guess a POTENTIAL answer, and then try to prove it by induction. If your guess is right, the problem usually becomes easy once you apply induction. If the guess is wrong, you'll see when doing the induction that it is wrong. And then, make another guess. Noyte that until proving it, your guess is just a guess.
      $endgroup$
      – N. S.
      5 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @ErotemeObelus To understand the difference, just look at $sum_k=1^n k^3$. You can calcualte this sum without induction, but unless you seen the technique before it is very tricky... Just try it yourself.. With induction here is how one would proceed $$sum_k=1^1 k^3=1\ sum_k=1^2 k^3=9 \ sum_k=1^3 k^3=36 \ sum_k=1^4 k^3=100$$ You should imediately recognize that all these numbers are prefect squares and then see that $$sum_k=1^1 k^3=1^2\ sum_k=1^2 k^3=3^2 \ sum_k=1^3 k^3=6^2 \ sum_k=1^4 k^3=10^2$$ At this point, if you are familiar with triangular numbers
      $endgroup$
      – N. S.
      5 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      if note, you either calculate few more terms, or just stare at them until you observe the somewhat obvious pattern, especially if you also calcualte $mn=5,6..$: $$3-1=2 \6-3=3\10-6 =4 \15-10=5\21-15=6$$ At the end of the day, guessing the right formula here and then proving it by induction is easier and faster than proving it without induction.... Of course in some problems guessing can be really tricky, but those are not good induction sum problems ;) Don't expect every sum to be easy to guess and prove by induction, that would make many areas of mathematics very easy.
      $endgroup$
      – N. S.
      5 hours ago

















    • $begingroup$
      If you must derive the sum without induction then you don't really need induction to prove it do you
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      5 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @ErotemeObelus Well, yes and no. The key here is that sometimes you can derive the sum without induction, and then yes you don't need induction to prove it. But given a sum, you can always guess a POTENTIAL answer, and then try to prove it by induction. If your guess is right, the problem usually becomes easy once you apply induction. If the guess is wrong, you'll see when doing the induction that it is wrong. And then, make another guess. Noyte that until proving it, your guess is just a guess.
      $endgroup$
      – N. S.
      5 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @ErotemeObelus To understand the difference, just look at $sum_k=1^n k^3$. You can calcualte this sum without induction, but unless you seen the technique before it is very tricky... Just try it yourself.. With induction here is how one would proceed $$sum_k=1^1 k^3=1\ sum_k=1^2 k^3=9 \ sum_k=1^3 k^3=36 \ sum_k=1^4 k^3=100$$ You should imediately recognize that all these numbers are prefect squares and then see that $$sum_k=1^1 k^3=1^2\ sum_k=1^2 k^3=3^2 \ sum_k=1^3 k^3=6^2 \ sum_k=1^4 k^3=10^2$$ At this point, if you are familiar with triangular numbers
      $endgroup$
      – N. S.
      5 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      if note, you either calculate few more terms, or just stare at them until you observe the somewhat obvious pattern, especially if you also calcualte $mn=5,6..$: $$3-1=2 \6-3=3\10-6 =4 \15-10=5\21-15=6$$ At the end of the day, guessing the right formula here and then proving it by induction is easier and faster than proving it without induction.... Of course in some problems guessing can be really tricky, but those are not good induction sum problems ;) Don't expect every sum to be easy to guess and prove by induction, that would make many areas of mathematics very easy.
      $endgroup$
      – N. S.
      5 hours ago
















    $begingroup$
    If you must derive the sum without induction then you don't really need induction to prove it do you
    $endgroup$
    – ErotemeObelus
    5 hours ago





    $begingroup$
    If you must derive the sum without induction then you don't really need induction to prove it do you
    $endgroup$
    – ErotemeObelus
    5 hours ago





    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    @ErotemeObelus Well, yes and no. The key here is that sometimes you can derive the sum without induction, and then yes you don't need induction to prove it. But given a sum, you can always guess a POTENTIAL answer, and then try to prove it by induction. If your guess is right, the problem usually becomes easy once you apply induction. If the guess is wrong, you'll see when doing the induction that it is wrong. And then, make another guess. Noyte that until proving it, your guess is just a guess.
    $endgroup$
    – N. S.
    5 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    @ErotemeObelus Well, yes and no. The key here is that sometimes you can derive the sum without induction, and then yes you don't need induction to prove it. But given a sum, you can always guess a POTENTIAL answer, and then try to prove it by induction. If your guess is right, the problem usually becomes easy once you apply induction. If the guess is wrong, you'll see when doing the induction that it is wrong. And then, make another guess. Noyte that until proving it, your guess is just a guess.
    $endgroup$
    – N. S.
    5 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    @ErotemeObelus To understand the difference, just look at $sum_k=1^n k^3$. You can calcualte this sum without induction, but unless you seen the technique before it is very tricky... Just try it yourself.. With induction here is how one would proceed $$sum_k=1^1 k^3=1\ sum_k=1^2 k^3=9 \ sum_k=1^3 k^3=36 \ sum_k=1^4 k^3=100$$ You should imediately recognize that all these numbers are prefect squares and then see that $$sum_k=1^1 k^3=1^2\ sum_k=1^2 k^3=3^2 \ sum_k=1^3 k^3=6^2 \ sum_k=1^4 k^3=10^2$$ At this point, if you are familiar with triangular numbers
    $endgroup$
    – N. S.
    5 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    @ErotemeObelus To understand the difference, just look at $sum_k=1^n k^3$. You can calcualte this sum without induction, but unless you seen the technique before it is very tricky... Just try it yourself.. With induction here is how one would proceed $$sum_k=1^1 k^3=1\ sum_k=1^2 k^3=9 \ sum_k=1^3 k^3=36 \ sum_k=1^4 k^3=100$$ You should imediately recognize that all these numbers are prefect squares and then see that $$sum_k=1^1 k^3=1^2\ sum_k=1^2 k^3=3^2 \ sum_k=1^3 k^3=6^2 \ sum_k=1^4 k^3=10^2$$ At this point, if you are familiar with triangular numbers
    $endgroup$
    – N. S.
    5 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    if note, you either calculate few more terms, or just stare at them until you observe the somewhat obvious pattern, especially if you also calcualte $mn=5,6..$: $$3-1=2 \6-3=3\10-6 =4 \15-10=5\21-15=6$$ At the end of the day, guessing the right formula here and then proving it by induction is easier and faster than proving it without induction.... Of course in some problems guessing can be really tricky, but those are not good induction sum problems ;) Don't expect every sum to be easy to guess and prove by induction, that would make many areas of mathematics very easy.
    $endgroup$
    – N. S.
    5 hours ago





    $begingroup$
    if note, you either calculate few more terms, or just stare at them until you observe the somewhat obvious pattern, especially if you also calcualte $mn=5,6..$: $$3-1=2 \6-3=3\10-6 =4 \15-10=5\21-15=6$$ At the end of the day, guessing the right formula here and then proving it by induction is easier and faster than proving it without induction.... Of course in some problems guessing can be really tricky, but those are not good induction sum problems ;) Don't expect every sum to be easy to guess and prove by induction, that would make many areas of mathematics very easy.
    $endgroup$
    – N. S.
    5 hours ago












    1












    $begingroup$

    Theorem discovery and proof are simply different processes. Quoting from Rosen, Discrete Mathematics and its Applications, 7th Edition, Sec. 5.1, "The Good and the Bad of Mathematical Induction":




    An important point needs to be made about mathematical induction
    before we commence a study of its use. The good thing about
    mathematical induction is that it can be used to prove a conjecture
    once it is has been made (and is true). The bad thing about it is that
    it cannot be used to find new theorems. Mathematicians sometimes find
    proofs by mathematical induction unsatisfying because they do not
    provide insights as to why theorems are true. Many theorems can be
    proved in many ways, including by mathematical induction. Proofs of
    these theorems by methods other than mathematical induction are often
    preferred because of the insights they bring.




    And, in a sidebar:




    You can prove a theorem by mathematical induction even if you do not
    have the slightest idea why it is true!







    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      The problem is that if mathematical induction can't find theorems, then it's self-defeating. Why? Because in the process of finding the theorem, you discover why it is true (and find a proof as a side-effect) making proving by induction redundant.
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      1 hour ago















    1












    $begingroup$

    Theorem discovery and proof are simply different processes. Quoting from Rosen, Discrete Mathematics and its Applications, 7th Edition, Sec. 5.1, "The Good and the Bad of Mathematical Induction":




    An important point needs to be made about mathematical induction
    before we commence a study of its use. The good thing about
    mathematical induction is that it can be used to prove a conjecture
    once it is has been made (and is true). The bad thing about it is that
    it cannot be used to find new theorems. Mathematicians sometimes find
    proofs by mathematical induction unsatisfying because they do not
    provide insights as to why theorems are true. Many theorems can be
    proved in many ways, including by mathematical induction. Proofs of
    these theorems by methods other than mathematical induction are often
    preferred because of the insights they bring.




    And, in a sidebar:




    You can prove a theorem by mathematical induction even if you do not
    have the slightest idea why it is true!







    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      The problem is that if mathematical induction can't find theorems, then it's self-defeating. Why? Because in the process of finding the theorem, you discover why it is true (and find a proof as a side-effect) making proving by induction redundant.
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      1 hour ago













    1












    1








    1





    $begingroup$

    Theorem discovery and proof are simply different processes. Quoting from Rosen, Discrete Mathematics and its Applications, 7th Edition, Sec. 5.1, "The Good and the Bad of Mathematical Induction":




    An important point needs to be made about mathematical induction
    before we commence a study of its use. The good thing about
    mathematical induction is that it can be used to prove a conjecture
    once it is has been made (and is true). The bad thing about it is that
    it cannot be used to find new theorems. Mathematicians sometimes find
    proofs by mathematical induction unsatisfying because they do not
    provide insights as to why theorems are true. Many theorems can be
    proved in many ways, including by mathematical induction. Proofs of
    these theorems by methods other than mathematical induction are often
    preferred because of the insights they bring.




    And, in a sidebar:




    You can prove a theorem by mathematical induction even if you do not
    have the slightest idea why it is true!







    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    Theorem discovery and proof are simply different processes. Quoting from Rosen, Discrete Mathematics and its Applications, 7th Edition, Sec. 5.1, "The Good and the Bad of Mathematical Induction":




    An important point needs to be made about mathematical induction
    before we commence a study of its use. The good thing about
    mathematical induction is that it can be used to prove a conjecture
    once it is has been made (and is true). The bad thing about it is that
    it cannot be used to find new theorems. Mathematicians sometimes find
    proofs by mathematical induction unsatisfying because they do not
    provide insights as to why theorems are true. Many theorems can be
    proved in many ways, including by mathematical induction. Proofs of
    these theorems by methods other than mathematical induction are often
    preferred because of the insights they bring.




    And, in a sidebar:




    You can prove a theorem by mathematical induction even if you do not
    have the slightest idea why it is true!








    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered 2 hours ago









    Daniel R. CollinsDaniel R. Collins

    5,9351534




    5,9351534











    • $begingroup$
      The problem is that if mathematical induction can't find theorems, then it's self-defeating. Why? Because in the process of finding the theorem, you discover why it is true (and find a proof as a side-effect) making proving by induction redundant.
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      1 hour ago
















    • $begingroup$
      The problem is that if mathematical induction can't find theorems, then it's self-defeating. Why? Because in the process of finding the theorem, you discover why it is true (and find a proof as a side-effect) making proving by induction redundant.
      $endgroup$
      – ErotemeObelus
      1 hour ago















    $begingroup$
    The problem is that if mathematical induction can't find theorems, then it's self-defeating. Why? Because in the process of finding the theorem, you discover why it is true (and find a proof as a side-effect) making proving by induction redundant.
    $endgroup$
    – ErotemeObelus
    1 hour ago




    $begingroup$
    The problem is that if mathematical induction can't find theorems, then it's self-defeating. Why? Because in the process of finding the theorem, you discover why it is true (and find a proof as a side-effect) making proving by induction redundant.
    $endgroup$
    – ErotemeObelus
    1 hour ago











    0












    $begingroup$

    You seem to want to ask about how we can guess the correct formula for a general summation. For summation of perfect powers, or in general polynomials, see this post which explains a very efficient method to derive the closed-formula without any guessing whatsoever.



    However, expressions can be hard to simplify even if you know it can be simplified. For example, you can prove that $F_n-1 F_n+1 - F_n^2 = (-1)^n$ by induction, where $F_n$ is the $n$-th fibonacci number, but if I simply asked you to simplify $F_n-1 F_n+1 - F_n^2$ without guessing the pattern, it is harder. It can be done, and the algebraic proof is very elegant, but you need mathematical insight.



    Also, there is an inherent complexity in some theorems that can only be proven using induction, in a precise technical sense. For example, some theorems that can be proven by PA or ACA0 must use an induction axiom, and by this I mean that we can prove that it cannot be proven without using any induction axiom. In this post you can find two examples of such theorems, including the well-known facts:



    • Every natural number is either a multiple of two or one more than a multiple of two.

    • There is no ratio of positive integers whose square is two.

    There is a field of mathematics called Reverse Mathematics that studies finer distinctions, such as how much induction is needed. Many high-school problems can be solved using quantifier-free induction. These same problems often can be proven algebraically in a manner that hides the induction, say via telescoping. For instance, $sum_k=1^n (6k^2+2) = sum_k=1^n big( (k+1)^3-(k-1)^3 big)$. But there is no easy systematic way to find such telescoping sums.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$

















      0












      $begingroup$

      You seem to want to ask about how we can guess the correct formula for a general summation. For summation of perfect powers, or in general polynomials, see this post which explains a very efficient method to derive the closed-formula without any guessing whatsoever.



      However, expressions can be hard to simplify even if you know it can be simplified. For example, you can prove that $F_n-1 F_n+1 - F_n^2 = (-1)^n$ by induction, where $F_n$ is the $n$-th fibonacci number, but if I simply asked you to simplify $F_n-1 F_n+1 - F_n^2$ without guessing the pattern, it is harder. It can be done, and the algebraic proof is very elegant, but you need mathematical insight.



      Also, there is an inherent complexity in some theorems that can only be proven using induction, in a precise technical sense. For example, some theorems that can be proven by PA or ACA0 must use an induction axiom, and by this I mean that we can prove that it cannot be proven without using any induction axiom. In this post you can find two examples of such theorems, including the well-known facts:



      • Every natural number is either a multiple of two or one more than a multiple of two.

      • There is no ratio of positive integers whose square is two.

      There is a field of mathematics called Reverse Mathematics that studies finer distinctions, such as how much induction is needed. Many high-school problems can be solved using quantifier-free induction. These same problems often can be proven algebraically in a manner that hides the induction, say via telescoping. For instance, $sum_k=1^n (6k^2+2) = sum_k=1^n big( (k+1)^3-(k-1)^3 big)$. But there is no easy systematic way to find such telescoping sums.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$















        0












        0








        0





        $begingroup$

        You seem to want to ask about how we can guess the correct formula for a general summation. For summation of perfect powers, or in general polynomials, see this post which explains a very efficient method to derive the closed-formula without any guessing whatsoever.



        However, expressions can be hard to simplify even if you know it can be simplified. For example, you can prove that $F_n-1 F_n+1 - F_n^2 = (-1)^n$ by induction, where $F_n$ is the $n$-th fibonacci number, but if I simply asked you to simplify $F_n-1 F_n+1 - F_n^2$ without guessing the pattern, it is harder. It can be done, and the algebraic proof is very elegant, but you need mathematical insight.



        Also, there is an inherent complexity in some theorems that can only be proven using induction, in a precise technical sense. For example, some theorems that can be proven by PA or ACA0 must use an induction axiom, and by this I mean that we can prove that it cannot be proven without using any induction axiom. In this post you can find two examples of such theorems, including the well-known facts:



        • Every natural number is either a multiple of two or one more than a multiple of two.

        • There is no ratio of positive integers whose square is two.

        There is a field of mathematics called Reverse Mathematics that studies finer distinctions, such as how much induction is needed. Many high-school problems can be solved using quantifier-free induction. These same problems often can be proven algebraically in a manner that hides the induction, say via telescoping. For instance, $sum_k=1^n (6k^2+2) = sum_k=1^n big( (k+1)^3-(k-1)^3 big)$. But there is no easy systematic way to find such telescoping sums.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        You seem to want to ask about how we can guess the correct formula for a general summation. For summation of perfect powers, or in general polynomials, see this post which explains a very efficient method to derive the closed-formula without any guessing whatsoever.



        However, expressions can be hard to simplify even if you know it can be simplified. For example, you can prove that $F_n-1 F_n+1 - F_n^2 = (-1)^n$ by induction, where $F_n$ is the $n$-th fibonacci number, but if I simply asked you to simplify $F_n-1 F_n+1 - F_n^2$ without guessing the pattern, it is harder. It can be done, and the algebraic proof is very elegant, but you need mathematical insight.



        Also, there is an inherent complexity in some theorems that can only be proven using induction, in a precise technical sense. For example, some theorems that can be proven by PA or ACA0 must use an induction axiom, and by this I mean that we can prove that it cannot be proven without using any induction axiom. In this post you can find two examples of such theorems, including the well-known facts:



        • Every natural number is either a multiple of two or one more than a multiple of two.

        • There is no ratio of positive integers whose square is two.

        There is a field of mathematics called Reverse Mathematics that studies finer distinctions, such as how much induction is needed. Many high-school problems can be solved using quantifier-free induction. These same problems often can be proven algebraically in a manner that hides the induction, say via telescoping. For instance, $sum_k=1^n (6k^2+2) = sum_k=1^n big( (k+1)^3-(k-1)^3 big)$. But there is no easy systematic way to find such telescoping sums.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered 4 hours ago









        user21820user21820

        40.6k545164




        40.6k545164



























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