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What is a Centaur Thief's climbing speed?

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9

$begingroup$

The Thief archetype Rogue's Second-Story Work (PHB, p. 97) feature states:

[...] you gain the ability to climb faster than normal; climbing no longer costs you extra movement.

However, the Centaur's Equine Build racial trait (GGR, p. 16) says:

In addition, any climb that requires hands and feet is especially difficult for you because of your equine legs. When you make such a climb, each foot of movement costs you 4 extra feet, instead of the normal 1 extra foot.

Both of these in my opinion are specific, in the "specific beats general" type of rulings, but does one supersede the other? Would a Centaur Thief climb 40 feet or 8 feet (1+4 extra feet) per round?

dnd-5e class-feature rogue racial-traits thief

share|improve this question

edited 6 hours ago

V2Blast

29.4k5106178

asked 8 hours ago

bubbajake00bubbajake00

1,56011038

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

9

$begingroup$

The Thief archetype Rogue's Second-Story Work (PHB, p. 97) feature states:

[...] you gain the ability to climb faster than normal; climbing no longer costs you extra movement.

However, the Centaur's Equine Build racial trait (GGR, p. 16) says:

In addition, any climb that requires hands and feet is especially difficult for you because of your equine legs. When you make such a climb, each foot of movement costs you 4 extra feet, instead of the normal 1 extra foot.

Both of these in my opinion are specific, in the "specific beats general" type of rulings, but does one supersede the other? Would a Centaur Thief climb 40 feet or 8 feet (1+4 extra feet) per round?

dnd-5e class-feature rogue racial-traits thief

share|improve this question

edited 6 hours ago

V2Blast

29.4k5106178

asked 8 hours ago

bubbajake00bubbajake00

1,56011038

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

The Thief archetype Rogue's Second-Story Work (PHB, p. 97) feature states:

[...] you gain the ability to climb faster than normal; climbing no longer costs you extra movement.

However, the Centaur's Equine Build racial trait (GGR, p. 16) says:

In addition, any climb that requires hands and feet is especially difficult for you because of your equine legs. When you make such a climb, each foot of movement costs you 4 extra feet, instead of the normal 1 extra foot.

Both of these in my opinion are specific, in the "specific beats general" type of rulings, but does one supersede the other? Would a Centaur Thief climb 40 feet or 8 feet (1+4 extra feet) per round?

dnd-5e class-feature rogue racial-traits thief

share|improve this question

edited 6 hours ago

V2Blast

29.4k5106178

asked 8 hours ago

bubbajake00bubbajake00

1,56011038

$endgroup$

share|improve this question

edited 6 hours ago

V2Blast

29.4k5106178

asked 8 hours ago

bubbajake00bubbajake00

1,56011038

share|improve this question

edited 6 hours ago

V2Blast

29.4k5106178

asked 8 hours ago

bubbajake00bubbajake00

1,56011038

edited 6 hours ago

V2Blast

29.4k5106178

edited 6 hours ago

V2Blast

29.4k5106178

asked 8 hours ago

bubbajake00bubbajake00

1,56011038

asked 8 hours ago

bubbajake00bubbajake00

1,56011038

2 Answers
2

active

oldest

votes

8

$begingroup$

From logic, one would arrive at:

1. "Climbing for a thief no longer costs the thief extra movement,"


2. "Climbing for a centaur costs 4 extra feet,"


3. "4 extra feet is extra movement," (implied from "instead of the normal 1 extra foot")


4. (2&3) "Climbing for a centaur costs extra movement"
   C. (1&4) "Climbing for a centaur thief would not cost any extra movement."
   

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

Cab ZxCab Zx

891

New contributor

Cab Zx is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Welcome to RPG.SE! This is a great first answer. The tour and the help center are available if you want to know more about how we do stuff. Happy gaming!
  $endgroup$
  – Chris Starnes
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  I feel that this is a perfectly acceptable reading of the rules, but potentially breaking the spirit of them. - DM and Players may benefit from a discussion to decide if adding that much power to a character is in the spirit of their campaign. ["The centaur thief climbs as well as a bipedal non-thief for example", or their penalty is reduced by 1, could be more fitting.]
  $endgroup$
  – TheLuckless
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

4

$begingroup$

The way to reconcile these, IMHO, is to realise that the Thief ability is written assuming that the character is an ordinary humanoid biped. They would pay one extra foot of movement for each foot of climbing, and the ability removes that penalty.

So you could plausibly claim that a centaur Thief with Second-Story Work pays three extra feet of movement for each foot of climbing, rather than four. That gives them a climbing move of ten feet, better than a normal centaur, but worse than a biped non-Thief. That seems like a plausible outcome within the game world.

Being a centaur who climbs buildings isn't a very sensible idea, and should not be made plausible by over-literal rules interpretation.

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

John DallmanJohn Dallman

11.9k23364

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  +1 for that last sentence especially, realism is important too
  $endgroup$
  – NathanS
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

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8

$begingroup$

From logic, one would arrive at:

1. "Climbing for a thief no longer costs the thief extra movement,"


2. "Climbing for a centaur costs 4 extra feet,"


3. "4 extra feet is extra movement," (implied from "instead of the normal 1 extra foot")


4. (2&3) "Climbing for a centaur costs extra movement"
   C. (1&4) "Climbing for a centaur thief would not cost any extra movement."
   

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

Cab ZxCab Zx

891

New contributor

Cab Zx is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Welcome to RPG.SE! This is a great first answer. The tour and the help center are available if you want to know more about how we do stuff. Happy gaming!
  $endgroup$
  – Chris Starnes
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  I feel that this is a perfectly acceptable reading of the rules, but potentially breaking the spirit of them. - DM and Players may benefit from a discussion to decide if adding that much power to a character is in the spirit of their campaign. ["The centaur thief climbs as well as a bipedal non-thief for example", or their penalty is reduced by 1, could be more fitting.]
  $endgroup$
  – TheLuckless
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

8

$begingroup$

From logic, one would arrive at:

1. "Climbing for a thief no longer costs the thief extra movement,"


2. "Climbing for a centaur costs 4 extra feet,"


3. "4 extra feet is extra movement," (implied from "instead of the normal 1 extra foot")


4. (2&3) "Climbing for a centaur costs extra movement"
   C. (1&4) "Climbing for a centaur thief would not cost any extra movement."
   

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

Cab ZxCab Zx

891

New contributor

Cab Zx is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Welcome to RPG.SE! This is a great first answer. The tour and the help center are available if you want to know more about how we do stuff. Happy gaming!
  $endgroup$
  – Chris Starnes
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  I feel that this is a perfectly acceptable reading of the rules, but potentially breaking the spirit of them. - DM and Players may benefit from a discussion to decide if adding that much power to a character is in the spirit of their campaign. ["The centaur thief climbs as well as a bipedal non-thief for example", or their penalty is reduced by 1, could be more fitting.]
  $endgroup$
  – TheLuckless
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

From logic, one would arrive at:

1. "Climbing for a thief no longer costs the thief extra movement,"


2. "Climbing for a centaur costs 4 extra feet,"


3. "4 extra feet is extra movement," (implied from "instead of the normal 1 extra foot")


4. (2&3) "Climbing for a centaur costs extra movement"
   C. (1&4) "Climbing for a centaur thief would not cost any extra movement."
   

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

Cab ZxCab Zx

891

New contributor

Cab Zx is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

Cab ZxCab Zx

891

New contributor

Cab Zx is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

answered 7 hours ago

Cab ZxCab Zx

891

New contributor

Cab Zx is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

answered 7 hours ago

Cab ZxCab Zx

891

4

$begingroup$

The way to reconcile these, IMHO, is to realise that the Thief ability is written assuming that the character is an ordinary humanoid biped. They would pay one extra foot of movement for each foot of climbing, and the ability removes that penalty.

So you could plausibly claim that a centaur Thief with Second-Story Work pays three extra feet of movement for each foot of climbing, rather than four. That gives them a climbing move of ten feet, better than a normal centaur, but worse than a biped non-Thief. That seems like a plausible outcome within the game world.

Being a centaur who climbs buildings isn't a very sensible idea, and should not be made plausible by over-literal rules interpretation.

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

John DallmanJohn Dallman

11.9k23364

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  +1 for that last sentence especially, realism is important too
  $endgroup$
  – NathanS
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

4

$begingroup$

The way to reconcile these, IMHO, is to realise that the Thief ability is written assuming that the character is an ordinary humanoid biped. They would pay one extra foot of movement for each foot of climbing, and the ability removes that penalty.

So you could plausibly claim that a centaur Thief with Second-Story Work pays three extra feet of movement for each foot of climbing, rather than four. That gives them a climbing move of ten feet, better than a normal centaur, but worse than a biped non-Thief. That seems like a plausible outcome within the game world.

Being a centaur who climbs buildings isn't a very sensible idea, and should not be made plausible by over-literal rules interpretation.

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

John DallmanJohn Dallman

11.9k23364

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  +1 for that last sentence especially, realism is important too
  $endgroup$
  – NathanS
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

The way to reconcile these, IMHO, is to realise that the Thief ability is written assuming that the character is an ordinary humanoid biped. They would pay one extra foot of movement for each foot of climbing, and the ability removes that penalty.

So you could plausibly claim that a centaur Thief with Second-Story Work pays three extra feet of movement for each foot of climbing, rather than four. That gives them a climbing move of ten feet, better than a normal centaur, but worse than a biped non-Thief. That seems like a plausible outcome within the game world.

Being a centaur who climbs buildings isn't a very sensible idea, and should not be made plausible by over-literal rules interpretation.

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

John DallmanJohn Dallman

11.9k23364

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

answered 7 hours ago

John DallmanJohn Dallman

11.9k23364

answered 7 hours ago

John DallmanJohn Dallman

11.9k23364

answered 7 hours ago

John DallmanJohn Dallman

11.9k23364