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What was the design of the Macintosh II's MMU replacement?


Linux 68k Macintosh emulatorMacintosh LC III Internal Speaker not workingDid the Macintosh Classic series use DMA to display video?Can the ADB keyboard and mouse be converted to the 128K Macintosh?What is the title of this Macintosh programming book?When did the Macintosh start using four (or more) layer PCB's?What happened to the Apple Device SBC that was supposed to compete with the linux SBCs?How did the early Macintosh computers update the display?Capacitor replacement on European 220 volt Mac 512K And PlusMacintosh SE/30 Cover screw size













3















I am in the process of repairing a Macintosh II and trying to understand the design rationale behind Apple's MMU replacement part installed in this machine.



As you can see in the picture, there is a socket for a Motorola 68851 MMU. In its place, Apple shipped the pictured chip. I am guessing it is some sort of custom discrete logic chip that provides limited MMU-like functionality.



enter image description here



What was accomplished with this design, and how do I use this chip if I want to "max out" the system RAM in the Macintosh II? Also, is there any possibility or point to swapping in an actual 68851?










share|improve this question

















  • 1





    Wikipedia claims that the HMMU didn’t implement virtual memory, but translated 24-bit to 32-bit addresses.

    – Stephen Kitt
    4 hours ago















3















I am in the process of repairing a Macintosh II and trying to understand the design rationale behind Apple's MMU replacement part installed in this machine.



As you can see in the picture, there is a socket for a Motorola 68851 MMU. In its place, Apple shipped the pictured chip. I am guessing it is some sort of custom discrete logic chip that provides limited MMU-like functionality.



enter image description here



What was accomplished with this design, and how do I use this chip if I want to "max out" the system RAM in the Macintosh II? Also, is there any possibility or point to swapping in an actual 68851?










share|improve this question

















  • 1





    Wikipedia claims that the HMMU didn’t implement virtual memory, but translated 24-bit to 32-bit addresses.

    – Stephen Kitt
    4 hours ago













3












3








3








I am in the process of repairing a Macintosh II and trying to understand the design rationale behind Apple's MMU replacement part installed in this machine.



As you can see in the picture, there is a socket for a Motorola 68851 MMU. In its place, Apple shipped the pictured chip. I am guessing it is some sort of custom discrete logic chip that provides limited MMU-like functionality.



enter image description here



What was accomplished with this design, and how do I use this chip if I want to "max out" the system RAM in the Macintosh II? Also, is there any possibility or point to swapping in an actual 68851?










share|improve this question














I am in the process of repairing a Macintosh II and trying to understand the design rationale behind Apple's MMU replacement part installed in this machine.



As you can see in the picture, there is a socket for a Motorola 68851 MMU. In its place, Apple shipped the pictured chip. I am guessing it is some sort of custom discrete logic chip that provides limited MMU-like functionality.



enter image description here



What was accomplished with this design, and how do I use this chip if I want to "max out" the system RAM in the Macintosh II? Also, is there any possibility or point to swapping in an actual 68851?







hardware memory apple-macintosh






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 5 hours ago









Brian HBrian H

18.7k69159




18.7k69159







  • 1





    Wikipedia claims that the HMMU didn’t implement virtual memory, but translated 24-bit to 32-bit addresses.

    – Stephen Kitt
    4 hours ago












  • 1





    Wikipedia claims that the HMMU didn’t implement virtual memory, but translated 24-bit to 32-bit addresses.

    – Stephen Kitt
    4 hours ago







1




1





Wikipedia claims that the HMMU didn’t implement virtual memory, but translated 24-bit to 32-bit addresses.

– Stephen Kitt
4 hours ago





Wikipedia claims that the HMMU didn’t implement virtual memory, but translated 24-bit to 32-bit addresses.

– Stephen Kitt
4 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















5














Your Mac II “HMMU” chip implements the address functionality shown in this image, from Guide to the Macintosh Family Hardware, 2nd edition:
Mac II 24-to-32-bit address mapping



The chip has two modes of operation. In 24-bit mode, the addresses are mapped as shown and the top 8 bits of the address bus are ignored. In 32-bit mode the address is buffered unchanged.



Early versions of the Mac system software store information in the top 8 bits of pointers (addresses). The original 68000 had only a 24-bit addressing capability, and so on 68000 Macs, the top 8 bits of a 32-bit address do not change what is output on the bus. The Mac II has a full 32-bit address bus, so, when running older software which uses those top 8 bits of the address, the 24-to-32 mapping must be turned on so the top 8 address bits are ignored.



In 24-bit mode, the Mac II can only access 8 MB of ram, so if you want to use more ram, you need to run “32-bit-clean” software which does not use those 8 top address bits. In this case, the 24-to-32 mapping can be turned off.



The PMMU is mostly for A/UX. It is possible to switch to a real 68851 “PMMU” but it doesn’t increase Mac OS performance unless you want to use virtual memory, and depending on your specific Mac II board, the MMU socket pinout may not match the 68851 and you might have to acquire and use the adapter card mentioned by jeffB.






share|improve this answer

























  • Interesting the HMMU is somewhat programmable; at least enough to select between 2 possible modes.

    – Brian H
    10 mins ago


















3














I can answer the last part of your question: yes, the Mac II could use a 68851.



For a time, Virginia Tech required incoming Computer Science freshmen to purchase a (heavily discounted) Mac II running A/UX, Apple's first in-house-developed UNIX. These machines shipped with 2MB RAM, an 80MB HD (huge for the time), and a 68851 pre-installed; A/UX required the 68851 to work.



Somewhere, in a dusty corner, I have a prototype Mac II that has a small daughtercard in that socket instead of a 68851. I may also have some documentation from the beta-testing period that would shed light on the "alternate" MMU.



I believe the Mac II first shipped with Mac OS 6, which didn't support virtual memory. I don't remember if VM support in System 7.(whatever) required the 68851.



As I recall, the Mac II shipped with 256KB SIMMs, supported 1MB SIMMs (up to 8MB total RAM), and was expected to support 4MB SIMMs when they became available. Unfortunately, manufacturers changed something in the electrical interface for 4MB SIMMs, so they didn't work in the Mac II. I think someone may have made a 4MB SIMM that could work in the Mac II, but they were low-volume and prohibitively expensive, and the Mac product line had moved on by then. So, "maxing out your RAM" probably means 8MB -- but that still exceeds the 24-bit address limit in early Mac OS, so you may need a "real" MMU to take advantage of it.






share|improve this answer

























  • 2^24 = 16 MB. Is there something I'm missing?

    – Mark
    25 mins ago











Your Answer








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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









5














Your Mac II “HMMU” chip implements the address functionality shown in this image, from Guide to the Macintosh Family Hardware, 2nd edition:
Mac II 24-to-32-bit address mapping



The chip has two modes of operation. In 24-bit mode, the addresses are mapped as shown and the top 8 bits of the address bus are ignored. In 32-bit mode the address is buffered unchanged.



Early versions of the Mac system software store information in the top 8 bits of pointers (addresses). The original 68000 had only a 24-bit addressing capability, and so on 68000 Macs, the top 8 bits of a 32-bit address do not change what is output on the bus. The Mac II has a full 32-bit address bus, so, when running older software which uses those top 8 bits of the address, the 24-to-32 mapping must be turned on so the top 8 address bits are ignored.



In 24-bit mode, the Mac II can only access 8 MB of ram, so if you want to use more ram, you need to run “32-bit-clean” software which does not use those 8 top address bits. In this case, the 24-to-32 mapping can be turned off.



The PMMU is mostly for A/UX. It is possible to switch to a real 68851 “PMMU” but it doesn’t increase Mac OS performance unless you want to use virtual memory, and depending on your specific Mac II board, the MMU socket pinout may not match the 68851 and you might have to acquire and use the adapter card mentioned by jeffB.






share|improve this answer

























  • Interesting the HMMU is somewhat programmable; at least enough to select between 2 possible modes.

    – Brian H
    10 mins ago















5














Your Mac II “HMMU” chip implements the address functionality shown in this image, from Guide to the Macintosh Family Hardware, 2nd edition:
Mac II 24-to-32-bit address mapping



The chip has two modes of operation. In 24-bit mode, the addresses are mapped as shown and the top 8 bits of the address bus are ignored. In 32-bit mode the address is buffered unchanged.



Early versions of the Mac system software store information in the top 8 bits of pointers (addresses). The original 68000 had only a 24-bit addressing capability, and so on 68000 Macs, the top 8 bits of a 32-bit address do not change what is output on the bus. The Mac II has a full 32-bit address bus, so, when running older software which uses those top 8 bits of the address, the 24-to-32 mapping must be turned on so the top 8 address bits are ignored.



In 24-bit mode, the Mac II can only access 8 MB of ram, so if you want to use more ram, you need to run “32-bit-clean” software which does not use those 8 top address bits. In this case, the 24-to-32 mapping can be turned off.



The PMMU is mostly for A/UX. It is possible to switch to a real 68851 “PMMU” but it doesn’t increase Mac OS performance unless you want to use virtual memory, and depending on your specific Mac II board, the MMU socket pinout may not match the 68851 and you might have to acquire and use the adapter card mentioned by jeffB.






share|improve this answer

























  • Interesting the HMMU is somewhat programmable; at least enough to select between 2 possible modes.

    – Brian H
    10 mins ago













5












5








5







Your Mac II “HMMU” chip implements the address functionality shown in this image, from Guide to the Macintosh Family Hardware, 2nd edition:
Mac II 24-to-32-bit address mapping



The chip has two modes of operation. In 24-bit mode, the addresses are mapped as shown and the top 8 bits of the address bus are ignored. In 32-bit mode the address is buffered unchanged.



Early versions of the Mac system software store information in the top 8 bits of pointers (addresses). The original 68000 had only a 24-bit addressing capability, and so on 68000 Macs, the top 8 bits of a 32-bit address do not change what is output on the bus. The Mac II has a full 32-bit address bus, so, when running older software which uses those top 8 bits of the address, the 24-to-32 mapping must be turned on so the top 8 address bits are ignored.



In 24-bit mode, the Mac II can only access 8 MB of ram, so if you want to use more ram, you need to run “32-bit-clean” software which does not use those 8 top address bits. In this case, the 24-to-32 mapping can be turned off.



The PMMU is mostly for A/UX. It is possible to switch to a real 68851 “PMMU” but it doesn’t increase Mac OS performance unless you want to use virtual memory, and depending on your specific Mac II board, the MMU socket pinout may not match the 68851 and you might have to acquire and use the adapter card mentioned by jeffB.






share|improve this answer















Your Mac II “HMMU” chip implements the address functionality shown in this image, from Guide to the Macintosh Family Hardware, 2nd edition:
Mac II 24-to-32-bit address mapping



The chip has two modes of operation. In 24-bit mode, the addresses are mapped as shown and the top 8 bits of the address bus are ignored. In 32-bit mode the address is buffered unchanged.



Early versions of the Mac system software store information in the top 8 bits of pointers (addresses). The original 68000 had only a 24-bit addressing capability, and so on 68000 Macs, the top 8 bits of a 32-bit address do not change what is output on the bus. The Mac II has a full 32-bit address bus, so, when running older software which uses those top 8 bits of the address, the 24-to-32 mapping must be turned on so the top 8 address bits are ignored.



In 24-bit mode, the Mac II can only access 8 MB of ram, so if you want to use more ram, you need to run “32-bit-clean” software which does not use those 8 top address bits. In this case, the 24-to-32 mapping can be turned off.



The PMMU is mostly for A/UX. It is possible to switch to a real 68851 “PMMU” but it doesn’t increase Mac OS performance unless you want to use virtual memory, and depending on your specific Mac II board, the MMU socket pinout may not match the 68851 and you might have to acquire and use the adapter card mentioned by jeffB.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 1 hour ago

























answered 1 hour ago









Zane KaminskiZane Kaminski

2105




2105












  • Interesting the HMMU is somewhat programmable; at least enough to select between 2 possible modes.

    – Brian H
    10 mins ago

















  • Interesting the HMMU is somewhat programmable; at least enough to select between 2 possible modes.

    – Brian H
    10 mins ago
















Interesting the HMMU is somewhat programmable; at least enough to select between 2 possible modes.

– Brian H
10 mins ago





Interesting the HMMU is somewhat programmable; at least enough to select between 2 possible modes.

– Brian H
10 mins ago











3














I can answer the last part of your question: yes, the Mac II could use a 68851.



For a time, Virginia Tech required incoming Computer Science freshmen to purchase a (heavily discounted) Mac II running A/UX, Apple's first in-house-developed UNIX. These machines shipped with 2MB RAM, an 80MB HD (huge for the time), and a 68851 pre-installed; A/UX required the 68851 to work.



Somewhere, in a dusty corner, I have a prototype Mac II that has a small daughtercard in that socket instead of a 68851. I may also have some documentation from the beta-testing period that would shed light on the "alternate" MMU.



I believe the Mac II first shipped with Mac OS 6, which didn't support virtual memory. I don't remember if VM support in System 7.(whatever) required the 68851.



As I recall, the Mac II shipped with 256KB SIMMs, supported 1MB SIMMs (up to 8MB total RAM), and was expected to support 4MB SIMMs when they became available. Unfortunately, manufacturers changed something in the electrical interface for 4MB SIMMs, so they didn't work in the Mac II. I think someone may have made a 4MB SIMM that could work in the Mac II, but they were low-volume and prohibitively expensive, and the Mac product line had moved on by then. So, "maxing out your RAM" probably means 8MB -- but that still exceeds the 24-bit address limit in early Mac OS, so you may need a "real" MMU to take advantage of it.






share|improve this answer

























  • 2^24 = 16 MB. Is there something I'm missing?

    – Mark
    25 mins ago















3














I can answer the last part of your question: yes, the Mac II could use a 68851.



For a time, Virginia Tech required incoming Computer Science freshmen to purchase a (heavily discounted) Mac II running A/UX, Apple's first in-house-developed UNIX. These machines shipped with 2MB RAM, an 80MB HD (huge for the time), and a 68851 pre-installed; A/UX required the 68851 to work.



Somewhere, in a dusty corner, I have a prototype Mac II that has a small daughtercard in that socket instead of a 68851. I may also have some documentation from the beta-testing period that would shed light on the "alternate" MMU.



I believe the Mac II first shipped with Mac OS 6, which didn't support virtual memory. I don't remember if VM support in System 7.(whatever) required the 68851.



As I recall, the Mac II shipped with 256KB SIMMs, supported 1MB SIMMs (up to 8MB total RAM), and was expected to support 4MB SIMMs when they became available. Unfortunately, manufacturers changed something in the electrical interface for 4MB SIMMs, so they didn't work in the Mac II. I think someone may have made a 4MB SIMM that could work in the Mac II, but they were low-volume and prohibitively expensive, and the Mac product line had moved on by then. So, "maxing out your RAM" probably means 8MB -- but that still exceeds the 24-bit address limit in early Mac OS, so you may need a "real" MMU to take advantage of it.






share|improve this answer

























  • 2^24 = 16 MB. Is there something I'm missing?

    – Mark
    25 mins ago













3












3








3







I can answer the last part of your question: yes, the Mac II could use a 68851.



For a time, Virginia Tech required incoming Computer Science freshmen to purchase a (heavily discounted) Mac II running A/UX, Apple's first in-house-developed UNIX. These machines shipped with 2MB RAM, an 80MB HD (huge for the time), and a 68851 pre-installed; A/UX required the 68851 to work.



Somewhere, in a dusty corner, I have a prototype Mac II that has a small daughtercard in that socket instead of a 68851. I may also have some documentation from the beta-testing period that would shed light on the "alternate" MMU.



I believe the Mac II first shipped with Mac OS 6, which didn't support virtual memory. I don't remember if VM support in System 7.(whatever) required the 68851.



As I recall, the Mac II shipped with 256KB SIMMs, supported 1MB SIMMs (up to 8MB total RAM), and was expected to support 4MB SIMMs when they became available. Unfortunately, manufacturers changed something in the electrical interface for 4MB SIMMs, so they didn't work in the Mac II. I think someone may have made a 4MB SIMM that could work in the Mac II, but they were low-volume and prohibitively expensive, and the Mac product line had moved on by then. So, "maxing out your RAM" probably means 8MB -- but that still exceeds the 24-bit address limit in early Mac OS, so you may need a "real" MMU to take advantage of it.






share|improve this answer















I can answer the last part of your question: yes, the Mac II could use a 68851.



For a time, Virginia Tech required incoming Computer Science freshmen to purchase a (heavily discounted) Mac II running A/UX, Apple's first in-house-developed UNIX. These machines shipped with 2MB RAM, an 80MB HD (huge for the time), and a 68851 pre-installed; A/UX required the 68851 to work.



Somewhere, in a dusty corner, I have a prototype Mac II that has a small daughtercard in that socket instead of a 68851. I may also have some documentation from the beta-testing period that would shed light on the "alternate" MMU.



I believe the Mac II first shipped with Mac OS 6, which didn't support virtual memory. I don't remember if VM support in System 7.(whatever) required the 68851.



As I recall, the Mac II shipped with 256KB SIMMs, supported 1MB SIMMs (up to 8MB total RAM), and was expected to support 4MB SIMMs when they became available. Unfortunately, manufacturers changed something in the electrical interface for 4MB SIMMs, so they didn't work in the Mac II. I think someone may have made a 4MB SIMM that could work in the Mac II, but they were low-volume and prohibitively expensive, and the Mac product line had moved on by then. So, "maxing out your RAM" probably means 8MB -- but that still exceeds the 24-bit address limit in early Mac OS, so you may need a "real" MMU to take advantage of it.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 26 mins ago









Brian H

18.7k69159




18.7k69159










answered 4 hours ago









jeffBjeffB

74828




74828












  • 2^24 = 16 MB. Is there something I'm missing?

    – Mark
    25 mins ago

















  • 2^24 = 16 MB. Is there something I'm missing?

    – Mark
    25 mins ago
















2^24 = 16 MB. Is there something I'm missing?

– Mark
25 mins ago





2^24 = 16 MB. Is there something I'm missing?

– Mark
25 mins ago

















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